Pelagic AC. Working Group I meeting 5 October :00-13:00 hrs Parkhotel Molenstraat 53, 2513 BJ Den Haag

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1 Pelagic AC meeting 5 October :00-13:00 hrs Parkhotel Molenstraat 53, 2513 BJ Den Haag The Netherlands Louis Braillelaan EK Zoetermeer The Netherlands Phone: +31 (0) info@pelagic-ac.org Website: Participants 1 Esben Sverdrup-Jensen, chairman Danish Pelagic Producer Organisation 2 Alex Wiseman Scottish Fishermen s Federation 3 Anne-Mette Baek Jespersen EU Fishmeal 4 Aukje Coers Cornelis Vrolijk 5 Bauke de Vries Pelagic AC 6 Bent Pallisgaard Ministry of Food, Agriculture and Fisheries Denmark 7 Carl Jesper Hermansen Danish Fishermen Organisation 8 Carmen Fernandez ICES 9 Claus Reedtz Sparrevohn Danish Pelagic Producer Organisation 10 Edward Farrell University College Dublin 11 Emil Remisz North Atlantic Producers Organisation 12 Eric Roeleveld Jaczon 13 Frans Vroegop Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs 14 Fredrik Lindberg Swedish Fishermen s Federation 15 Gerard van Balsfoort Pelagic Freezer Trawler Association 16 Gersom Costas Instituto Espanol de Oceanografia 17 Goncalo Carvalho Pew Charitable Trusts 18 Ian Gatt Scottish Pelagic Fishermen s Association 19 Inge van der Knaap Pelagic Freezer Trawler Association 20 Jerome Nouis Union des armateurs a la pêche de France 21 Jesper Juul Larsen Danish Fishermen Organisation 22 John Anderson Scottish Fishermen s Organisation 23 John Ward Irish Fish PO 24 Joost Paardekooper European Commission DG MARE 25 José Beltran OPLUGO 26 Justyna Zajchowska The Pew Charitable Trusts 27 Ken Whelan Atlantic Salmon Trust 28 Lauren Ferrari Marine Scotland 29 Lesley Duthie North Sea Women s Network 30 Lotte Huisman Seas at Risk 31 Ludmilla van der Meer Pelagic AC 32 Manuela Azevedo Instituto Português do Mar e da Atmosfera 33 Maria Aira Martin Shetland Fishermen s Association Page 1 of 11

2 34 Martin Pastoors Pelagic Freezer-Trawler Association 35 Matthew Cox National Federation of Fishermen s Organisation 36 Mikkel Stage The Danish AgriFish Agency 37 Patrick Murphy Irish South & West PO 38 Reine Johansson Swedish Fishermen s Federation 39 Rob Pronk W van der Zwan 40 Robert Griffin European Commission DG MARE 41 Romain Soisson From Nord 42 Sean O Donoghue Killybegs Fishermen s Organisation 43 Steve Mackinson Scottish Pelagic Fishermen s Association 44 Thomas Brunel IMARES 45 Verena Ohms Pelagic AC 46 Victor Simoncelli Marine Stewardship Council 47 Wietze Kampen European Transport Worker s Federation 48 William Stewart European Fisheries Control Agency 1. Opening of the meeting by the chairman, Esben Sverdrup-Jensen The chairman opened the meeting at 10:04 and welcomed the participants. A tour de table followed. 2. Adoption of the agenda Martin Pastoors announced that he and Inge van der Knaap had prepared a short presentation on North Sea horse mackerel which they would like to present. The chairman decided that this presentation could be included after the ICES presentation on North Sea horse mackerel. Apart from this change the agenda was adopted. 3. Follow-up on action items The first action item was about contacting the Marine Research Institute in Bergen in relation to the effects of dredging on herring spawning grounds. The chairman explained that this action item will be followed-up on by the ecosystem focus group and more information was to be provided in the afternoon. The next two action items were to be addressed at the MIACO meeting in January 2017 and related to access, preparation and transparency of inter-benchmark procedures carried out by correspondence as well as the revised F reference point for North Sea herring in relation to the EU-Norway management strategy. The chairman decided to keep these action items on the list until they have been dealt with at the next MIACO meeting. The fourth action item was to revisit the TAC advice for North Sea and Western Baltic spring spawning herring at this meeting which was done under a later agenda point. The final action item related to the work of the technical measures focus group. At the July meeting it was decided to postpone dealing with the revision of the technical measures until more clarity has been provided on the implications of BREXIT. However, the chairman understood that the Commission and Member States are pushing ahead with the file and that the current Council presidency has a fairly ambitious schedule. He invited comments from members on how to proceed with the work of the focus group. Page 2 of 11

3 Sean O Donoghue confirmed that the Council presidency has already produced a compromise. Given that the Technical Measures Regulation will be a priority in the Council he suggested revisiting the issue in the Pelagic AC. He said that there are a number of issues in relation to mackerel which have not been addressed by anyone and he believed that if the Pelagic AC will not address them, nobody will. He therefore suggested continuing the work of the focus group and to especially focus on the new Technical Measures framework. Ian Gatt said that from a UK perspective things have become a bit clearer last week. The UK Parliament intends to repeal all EU regulations and adopt them all into UK law. Therefore, whatever will be agreed it will also apply to UK stakeholders and he thus wanted to be a part of the group shaping the new Technical Measures Regulation. The chairman suggested having a meeting of the focus group on technical measures soon and to focus on the mackerel issues raised by Sean O Donoghue. He said that the idea of the new Technical Measures proposal is that regional groups can change technical rules over time posing the risk that in the end different technical measures will apply to the same stock which had to be avoided. 4. Fishing opportunities 2017: presentation of ICES advice by Carmen Fernandez The chairman invited Carmen Fernandez, vice-chair of ACOM, to present the ICES stock advice for widely distributed stocks. Carmen Fernandez thanked the Pelagic AC for the opportunity to present the ICES advice for the widely distributed stocks. She pointed out that the first couple of slides in her presentation provide an overview of the ICES advisory process and the principles ICES follows. However, this information has already been presented in July and she had been asked not to repeat this part of the presentation due to time limitations. Blue whiting Carmen Fernandez said that some of the widely distributed stocks are assessed as single stocks throughout the entire Northeast Atlantic as is the case for blue whiting. The ICES advice for 2017 follows the MSY approach which implies a catch of no more than tonnes. SSB has been increasing since 2017 and is above MSY Btrigger. However, F is estimated to have been above Fmsy in Recent recruitment has been above average. There has also been an inter-benchmark in 2016 which took place by correspondence, but Carmen Fernandez explained that workshops carried out by correspondence are also open to observers just like physical meetings. During the inter-benchmark some changes were made to the settings of the assessment model, because the survey in the year the stock assessment is conducted had a very strong impact on the assessment. The assessment model now includes preliminary catch data from the assessment year. This is acceptable because most blue whiting catches take place in the first two quarters whereas the assessment takes place in the third quarter. Compared to last year s assessment the results of this year s assessment are quite consistent. Reference points have also been re-evaluated and the new values are Flim = 0.88, Fpa = 0.53 and Fmsy = This was done because there was a NEAFC request to evaluate a harvest control rule. The big increase in catch advice compared to last year can be explained by the fact that recruitment in 2014 and 2015 is estimated to be much larger than assumed last year and because of the upwards revision of Fmsy. Page 3 of 11

4 The NEAFC request to evaluate a harvest control rule with a 20% interannual TAC limit and 10% interannual quota flexibility, i.e. banking and borrowing, has been evaluated to be precautionary. However, the 20% interannual TAC limit can lead to the TAC being lowered significantly if the stock is estimated to be below Bpa, while limiting how quickly the TAC can increase once the stock has recovered to above Bpa. The chairman thanked Carmen Fernandez for her detailed explanations and invited questions from the meeting participants. Sean O Donoghue said that there have been major upheavals in relation to blue whiting over the years. The last time there was a serious problem was in 2011 when due to a failed survey ICES cut the TAC by more than 90%. Stakeholders at the time made ICES aware that it had a wrong perception of the stock and were proven correct the following year. Sean O Donoghue emphasized the same last year and this year there is again a massive increase. He asked whether ICES has learned anything from its past mistakes in relation to blue whiting. He had no confidence in the ICES assessment of blue whiting which suddenly found the year class which was missing in the 2015 survey. He was very concerned that the advice will completely change again next year if there is another poor survey. He wanted to know if there was a way of getting out of this circle of major upheavals. He furthermore pointed out that in the past the Pelagic AC proposed to look at a harvest control rule with two trigger points which until today has not been pursued by anyone. He thought that this was one way of addressing major fluctuations. Finally he wanted to find another way of dealing with blue whiting. Carmen Fernandez realized that the blue whiting advice is quite variable from year to year and very challenging. She said that the only data source the assessment has in terms of tuning is the one survey which explains why this survey has such a strong impact and creates so much variability from year to year. However, she also pointed out that the assessment presented last year and the one presented this year are rather similar both in terms of SSB and fishing mortality. The biggest difference is the recruitment in 2014 and Last year the strength of the recruitment classes had to be assumed and since there were some indications that the new year classes were strong ICES used an estimate of 75% of the historical value. However, this year ICES knows that the year classes are much higher and this makes a huge difference. Sean O Donoghue replied that last year ICES was not in a position to answer a NEAFC request because the assessment failed, but ICES nevertheless gave advice. He did not understand how it was possible to give advice in one regard, but not the other. Carmen Fernandez was not involved in the request from the start, but when she became aware of it the response ICES gave to NEAFC was that since there was an inter-benchmark scheduled it would make more sense to evaluate the NEAFC request after the benchmark. She realized that the advice is very variable between years and she promised to take the comment back to ICES. Aukje Coers wanted to know why the NEAFC harvest control rule was not included in the catch options table and what the resulting TAC would be. In relation to the 20% TAC limit and how it is asymmetrical she said that this is very much an interpretation decision taken by the Working Group in regards to how the harvest control rule should be modeled. She wondered if there was not a simple solution to address the issue. ICES always argues that it is not up to scientists to solve such problems whereas managers often do not know how to solve them. Jerome Nouis was astonished to read on page four of the ICES advice that the input data takes into account qualitative estimates of recruitment from various surveys in the North like the Norwegian bottom trawl survey in the Barents Sea and the International Ecosystem Survey in the Nordic Seas (IESNS), while these are not the only areas where people find juveniles. A recent study on otoliths from all regions carried out by scientists from several different countries confirmed that there is a blue whiting stock structure and concluded that there are two subpopulations and a nursery area in the Bay Page 4 of 11

5 of Biscay. Everything that is fished in area 7 belongs to the southern subpopulation whereas catches in area 5 belong to the northern subpopulation. Catches in area 6 are a mix of both subpopulations. However, ICES only takes into account qualitative survey information from the northern area. At the end of 2010 the erroneous acoustic survey led to an almost non-existent TAC and five years later the issues with the stock assessment have still not been resolved. Qualitative recruitment estimates should also be taken into account for the southern subpopulation given that groundfish surveys exist in the Bay of Biscay. He also pointed out that catch information is provided for the following areas: Norwegian Sea (1, 2, 5.a 14.a-b), spawning area (12, 5.b, 6.a-b, 7.a-c), North Sea (4, 3.a) and southern area (8, 9, 7.d-k). However, he thought that it could be interesting to provide greater detail for catches in the spawning area and present catch figures for each of the areas, i.e. 12, 5.b, 6.a-b and 7.a-c or alternatively to present catch figures on another basis given the stock structure, i.e. catches in the northern areas, catches in the southern areas and catches in area 6 where there is a mixing of the two subpopulations. His last comment was in relation to the revised F value of Last year the F value was considered to be 0.3 and, realizing that this was a political decision, he preferred an F value resulting in less interannual variability rather than maximized yield. José Beltran followed-up on the remarks by Jerome Nouis and pointed out that international blue whiting spawning stock survey (IBWSS) strongly impacts the results of the stock assessment. He wanted to know if there are other studies or surveys from other institutes that are being taken into account. In relation to the questions posed by Aukje Coers Carmen Fernandez replied that there is no real reason why the NEAFC management strategy has not been included in the catch options table. She thought that if the strategy has been included, then there would be a 20% TAC constraint and hence she would expect a lower TAC. Regarding the second question about the TAC constraint Aukje Coers seemed to imply that ICES chose to interpret the NEAFC request in a certain way. However, that is not the case as it was clearly stated when the TAC constraint should apply. ICES simply evaluated the strategy as it was submitted. A few options were also explored by scientists on their own initiative, e.g. a 20% TAC constraint that would only apply above Blim, but not Bpa. The results of that evaluation did not change much. Another option that was explored was to apply the TAC constraint at all times, but this scenario was not precautionary. In terms of recruitment indices used from northern areas, but not southern areas Carmen Fernandez said that she did not know why no index from the southern area was used, but that this issue could be discussed at the next benchmark. She promised to pass the comment on to scientists working on this stock. In relation to the comment about Fmsy values and stability Carmen Fernandez admitted that the ICES MSY approach does not take stability into account and at the same time that the blue whiting assessment is highly variable. She said that stability should be addressed through a management plan. Gerard van Balsfoort pointed out that the Pelagic AC has looked into different options in the past to increase stability. However, he remembered that F would have to be reduced considerably to get more stable catches. One would have to go as low as 0.2 to reduce variability to below 45% and he was not willing to make that sacrifice especially given that the assessment is so uncertain. He considered this a very important issue to discuss and emphasized again that the price people would have to pay for a little more stability would be too high for him to accept. The chairman decided to continue the discussion later on during the meeting and to submit a number of questions to ICES in relation to the quality of the survey etc. Page 5 of 11

6 Atlanto-Scandian herring The ICES advice for Atlanto-Scandian herring in 2017 follows the management plan agreed, Norway, Iceland and the Faroe Islands according to which catches should be no more than tonnes. SSB has been declining and is now close to MSY Btrigger. F has been below Fmsy for a number of years and the last big recruitment was in The benchmark that took place in 2016 agreed on a new assessment model which takes better account of error structure in observations. The new assessment also sees the declining trend in SSB as less pronounced and estimates SSB higher in recent years compared to last year s assessment. In autumn 2016 there will be a workshop to re-evaluate reference points and the management plan to which stakeholders can sign up if they wish. In order to provide a forecast for 2017 it is necessary to make an assumption about the catch in This assumption is based on the declared quotas and predicts that SSB will be just below MSY Btrigger next year. When applying the harvest control rule of the management plan this will result in an F value of which is slightly lower than the Fmsy value of Compared to 2016 there is a considerable increase in the TAC advice for This is caused by the new assessment which estimates that SSB at the beginning of the TAC year will be just below Bpa whereas last year it was estimate to be 28% below Bpa. Gerard van Balsfoort said that the difference between Blim and MSY Btrigger is much bigger for this herring stock compared to all other herring stocks. These reference points have already been there since 1998 and he hoped that the next benchmark will re-evaluate them, because he considered the values a bit strange compared to other herring stocks. Carmen Fernandez clarified that the benchmark has already taken place, but that the reference points have not been evaluated yet. This will be done at a dedicated workshop in the autumn. She said that there was a special request in 2013 to re-evaluate the management plan and during that process the reference points were looked at as well. She explained that normally the difference between Bpa and Blim should take into account the uncertainty in the assessment. Blim relates to impaired recruitment and Bpa is a buffer on top. Sean O Donoghue noted that the Norwegians have reinstated the acoustic survey in February and March 2015 and This survey has not been there since 2005 and he wanted to know if it has a significant effect on the assessment. Carmen Fernandez was not sure about the answer, but Claus Reedtz-Sparrevohn said that the survey seemed to have a huge effect this year given that it now provides two data points while last year there was only one data point. Sean O Donoghue then pointed out that this is not mentioned in the ICES advice and he thought it should have been mentioned. Carmen Fernandez replied that she expected that the impact of the Norwegian acoustic survey is not a concern, because otherwise it would have been highlighted in the advice. North Sea horse mackerel Carmen Fernandez explained that there are three stocks of horse mackerel which together cover the entire Northeast Atlantic. The North Sea stock is located in areas 3.a, 4.b,c and 7.d. However, catches in divisions 3.a and 4.a are only allocated to the North Sea stock in quarters 1 and 2 and to the Western stock in quarters 3 and 4 due to migration. The ICES catch advice for 2017 is no more than tonnes which includes estimated discards in demersal fisheries of tonnes. While discarding in target pelagic fisheries is considered negligible, new information from bottom trawl fisheries indicates that in 2015 there has been a 16.7% discard rate in such fisheries. This issue will be further examined Page 6 of 11

7 at the benchmark in North Sea horse mackerel is a category 5 stock for which indices provide an overall perspective, but are very uncertain. The CGFS survey indicates an increase in recent years, but this increase is much less clear in the IBTS survey. Overall, the stock seems to remain at a low level. Fisheries in 2015 focused mainly on smaller fish which is expected to continue in 2015 and This exploitation pattern, catching mostly immature individuals, could hinder stock recovery. Gerard van Balsfoort considered the TAC top-up due to the discard rate a bit unfortunate. He pointed out that the landing obligation fully applies to the pelagic industry, but the demersal fleet does not yet have to land all of its bycatch. However, ICES does now take the discard rate into account. If the Commission follows the ICES advice there will be a huge discussion of who will get the additional tonnes, because the fleet that is discarding the stock has a very low part of the TAC. He found it very strange to suddenly take into account the discards of a fleet that does not yet have to land its bycatch and he wanted to take that into account when formulating the Pelagic AC s advice for this stock. He also wondered why the discard rate is included for North Sea horse mackerel, but not for e.g. mackerel or herring. Carmen Fernandez replied that the ADG was aware of the issue raised by Gerard van Balsfoort, but in the end ICES is not a political body and provides catch advice where possible. Therefore ICES decided to give catch advice for this stock and to be transparent about where the discards are coming from. Whoever needs to take political decisions knows what the science is and the principle for ICES has always been to try to get catch data as complete as possible. She promised to take the point back to ICES so that people can check if ICES missed information on herring and mackerel. The chairman thanked Carmen Fernandez for her presentation and invited Inge van der Knaap to present her latest data on horse mackerel. Industry data on horse mackerel Inge van der Knaap explained that what started as a specific research plan for North Sea horse mackerel ended up as a generic investigation into horse mackerel. There are two focus areas: stock identity and stock indicators. To find out more about stock identity genetic and chemical analysis has already been carried out, but research into vessel quality analysis is ongoing and Inge van der Knaap was going to provide an update in this regard. In terms of stock indicators new survey data have already been explored and Inge van der Knaap was now trying to find out if vessel catch rates could be used as well. After fish has been found and subsequently caught by a freezer-trawler it is being graded, sampled, frozen and then stored onboard. The samples taken are mainly used for a quality check. However, the measurements are very specific and include mean weight, length class, fat content, roe weight and stomach fill. The question is whether this information can be used to assess horse mackerel stock structure. The analysis to answer this question is well underway for the benchmark and so far includes data from ten vessels from 2005 to 2016 and 6500 horse mackerel samples out of Photographic material might also possibly used in the future. Regarding vessel catch rates Inge van der Knaap analyzed skippers diaries on a haul by haul basis. So far she has only used digitized information which goes back to 1998, but it might also be possible to use handwritten diaries that go back to 1989 in the future. This information can be plotted as ton per hour by area and year or quarter. This shows for example that horse mackerel has always been caught in the Channel area. The next step will be to model horse mackerel CPUE data taking into account location, time of year, vessel and geophysical aspect such as wind, temperature and tide. The modelling has already been initiated and the results will be compared with survey analysis. Inge van der Knaap was confident that the analysis will be completed before the ICES data evaluation workshop in November Page 7 of 11

8 Aukje Coers was impressed with the progress made. In relation to the use of photographic material she had promised at the July meeting to ask her former University professor if he might be interested in carrying out the photographic identification analysis and he has agreed to do it. She gave him 2800 photos which he will attempt to split into two groups. If he succeeds this information can feed into the project as well. However, she was not sure whether the analysis can be done before the benchmark. Sean O Donoghue wanted to know if Inge van der Knaap also had data from the northern part of area 6.a. Inge van der Knaap replied that at the moment she only had data from the Channel and the West of Ireland. The chairman thanked Inge van der Knaap for her presentation and said that this work is an excellent example of how the fishing industry can play a key part in science. 5. Adoption of PELAC advice Blue whiting The chairman summarized that there are two options for blue whiting: the MSY advice or the NEAFC management strategy which ICES evaluated to be precautionary with or without the TAC limit. He invited comments from members on what to recommend for this stock. Sean O Donoghue suggested following MSY which he was sure will be completely different again in two years from now, but there was nothing to be done about that. He also wanted to have another serious look at the two-tier harvest control rule developed by the Pelagic AC in 2012 with the help of Dankert Skagen. The whole idea behind this harvest control rule was that in times of high recruitment there can be a higher trigger point. The reason this was not taken up previously was because recruitment was so uncertain. He understood, however, that that has been resolved at the last benchmark and that the recruitment index is much more reliable now. He wanted to include an evaluation of the two-tier harvest control rule in the Pelagic AC recommendation. Gerard van Balsfoort agreed with Sean O Donoghue. In regards to variation between TACs he understood that people did not want too much variation between years, but he considered a simple approach of just lowering Ftarget as too expensive. Instead he suggested looking into different stability mechanisms, especially taking into account what Carmen Fernandez said about the effects of the asymmetrical TAC constraint in NEAFC request. He said that people should look for alternative stability mechanisms. Aukje Coers said that she briefly discussed the stability mechanism with Martin Pastoors and Carmen Fernandez and she thought that there might be a simple solution to the problem pointed out by ICES. She suggested not applying the TAC constraint when SSB falls below Btrigger and when SSB recovers to above Btrigger to wait one year before applying the constraint again. Intuitively that should get rid of the problem, but obviously would need to be simulated. However, given that the simulation framework is already in place this should be easy to do. Carmen Fernandez agreed that intuitively this could resolve the issue, but pointed at the need to simulate the scenario described by Aukje Coers. She also agreed that it should be very easy to perform the simulations since the framework is already set up. However, she assumed that it would require some sort of request to carry out the additional simulations. The chairman agreed that a request would have to be submitted to ICES. In relation to the two-tier harvest control rule he recalled that the reason the Pelagic AC could not find agreement on this previously is because some members had issues with the F values and he concluded that this harvest Page 8 of 11

9 control rule would have to be adjusted to fit Fmsy levels. Therefore, he proposed to follow MSY and to recommend exploring the stability mechanism further that is included in the NEAFC management strategy. Sean O Donoghue said that the request for exploring the stability mechanism further should also include further investigation of the two-tier harvest control rule. The meeting agreed. Atlanto-Scandian herring The chairman recalled that the catch advice for 2017 shows a rather dramatic increase compared to He also pointed out that in the past the Pelagic AC has always followed the management plan, but he opened the floor for comments. There were no comments and the chairman therefore suggested following the management plan and to await the re-evaluation of reference points and of the management plan. The meeting agreed. North Sea horse mackerel The chairman summarized that including the discard rate from demersal fisheries in the catch advice causes a complicated situation where the catch advice is considerably higher than the targeted catch advice. Gerard van Balsfoort said that he already tried to explain earlier how unhappy he is about the catch advice since it includes discards from a fleet that is not yet under the landing obligation. He wanted to stick to landings advice to send a clear signal that a political discussion in the Council should be avoided. Therefore, he recommended a TAC of tonnes. Goncalo Carvalho said that the NGOs supported the proposal by Gerard van Balsfoort and that in general NGOs are worried that uplifts could compromise the MSY objective in the CFP. Given that the increase is caused by a fleet not yet under the landing obligation he agreed sticking to the wanted catch advice of tonnes. Sean O Donoghue supported the proposal as well, but added that the discard issue should be pursued. He was shocked about the height of the percentage and wanted to investigate where this number is coming from and how the Commission intends to deal with this in the future. He said that the figure is very high and comes unexpectedly. Carmen Fernandez said that according to the ICES advice the discard information comes from otter trawl and she understood at the ADG that the French fleet has provided the information. She also said that at the benchmark discards data will be requested for earlier years to find out how wide spread these discards have been in previous years. The chairman concluded that the recommendation from the Working Group will be a TAC of tonnes and to explore the discard figures ahead of the benchmark. North Sea autumn spawning herring The chairman reminded people that the ICES advice for North Sea autumn spawning and Western Baltic spring spawning herring had already been presented in July. For North Sea herring there is a management strategy in place, however, ICES has provided a new set of reference points following a benchmark for North Sea cod. Fmsy has been revised from 0.27 to This leaves two options: either following the existing management strategy or updating the strategy in light of the new reference Page 9 of 11

10 points. He said that normally when ICES provides new reference points it would update the management strategy accordingly and re-evaluate it. However, this has not been done this time. Gerard van Balsfoort said that this was again a complicated situation which was already discussed at length in July. He questioned the fact that ICES decided to change reference points outside a benchmark, but ICES explained in July that it has been following current procedures. These procedures, however, make it very difficult for managers to make decisions. North Sea herring is a well-managed, healthy stock and all stakeholders are satisfied with the management strategy. However, a sudden change of reference points of this magnitude calls for an amendment of the current management strategy and he hoped that the EU and Norway will follow-up on this fact and re-evaluate the management strategy. He therefore recommended asking the Commission to launch a discussion on revising the management strategy and to base the TAC for next year on the revised strategy without mentioning a specific value for F. In any case he did not want to follow the current management strategy since it no longer complies with MSY. The chairman pointed out that this sort of ad hoc revision of reference points is on the list of issues to be discussed at the next MIACO meeting. This practice makes it very difficult to work with multiannual management strategies and also illuminates the danger of having fixed F values in a management strategy. He proposed following Gerard van Balsfoort s proposal to revise the management strategy in accordance with the latest ICES advice on reference points and to request clarity from ICES at the MIACO meeting what is decided in a benchmark and what in a Working Group. Western Baltic spring spawning herring The chairman pointed out that this stock has also been discussed in July and he did not want to go through all the details again. He said that based on information from the industry the assumed level transfer into the North Sea is 46% and this figure has been used by ICES for its forecast. He suggested following the existing management strategy and TAC setting procedure, but to take into account the consequences of a potential revision of the North Sea herring management strategy. Carmen Fernandez said that if the management strategy for North Sea herring is to have a higher target F then this also affect the division of the TAC and she assumed that it would need to be evaluated if the TAC setting procedure for 3.a would still be precautionary. Reine Johansson pointed out that the consequences for area are not yet known and hence there was nothing to discuss. The chairman considered this a valid point and said that the circularity in the TAC setting procedure for the stocks means that people have to await decisions taking for the Baltic. Normally Western Baltic spring spawning herring is more sensitive than North Sea herring. Carmen Fernandez recalled that the ICES advice said that the transfer to the North Sea has to be at least 10%. This indicates that people have to be careful when increasing fishing in area 3.a. Reine Johansson confirmed that Carmen Fernandez was correct, but also that in the current situation the transfer is well above 10% and therefore there is no problem. The chairman suggested following the existing management strategy, but to update the strategy based on the outcome of the revision of the North Sea herring management strategy. The meeting agreed. Page 10 of 11

11 6. Update on ecosystem focus group The chairman announced that due to time limitations it has been decided to postpone the presentation on the ecosystem focus group to the Executive Committee meeting on the following day. 7. AOB Aukje Coers recalled that in light of the discard data on North Sea horse mackerel it has been suggested that ICES should further explore the issue at the next benchmark. She wondered if the same should be done for Atlanto-Scandian herring. The chairman said that he would be surprised if there were any major discards of this stock and that information would have to be provided from non EU fleets. Aukje Coers subsequently asked whether ICES requested non EU countries to submit discard data to the benchmark. Carmen Fernandez replied that there is no ongoing benchmark process for Atlanto-Scandian herring, but that generally ICES always requests discard data. The chairman thought that there was no need to worry since discard data should come in through the Working Groups as has been the case for North Sea horse mackerel. 8. End of meeting The chairman finished the meeting at 13:00 hrs. Action items Raise concern about inter-benchmark procedure carried out through correspondence (access, preparation, transparency) at MIACO meeting 2017 (chairman) Raise issue of revised Fmsy reference point for North Sea herring in relation to management strategy with ICES at MIACO meeting 2017 (chairman) Arrange focus group meeting on technical measures and deal with mackerel issues raised by Sean O Donoghue in the group (chairman, secretariat) Take comment on the variability of the blue whiting advice back to ICES (Carmen Fernandez) Regarding blue whiting submit a number of questions to ICES in relation to the quality of the survey etc. (chairman, secretariat) Ask ICES if it might have missed discard information on herring and mackerel (Carmen Fernandez) Page 11 of 11

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