Little Pine Hunting Club Meeting

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Charity Hall
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1 Little Pine Hunting Club Meeting October 11, 2014 Identifying deer by sex and age What is and why do we have a management buck? Collecting Harvest & Observation Data 1

1) Doe & Fawn ID Compare: a. Suitcase versus Briefcase (the Big/Little rule) i.

Female heads are more rounded between the ears iv. Round corners vs squared corners v.

Once you identify it as a fawn, leave it alone ($100 for deer under 50 pounds) Left is

2 1) Doe & Fawn ID Compare: a. Suitcase versus Briefcase (the Big/Little rule) i. Long vs short neck ii. Head size (16 oz. bottle versus 8 oz. bottle) iii. Female heads are more rounded between the ears iv. Round corners vs squared corners v. Ear size in relation to the head b. Once you identify it as a fawn, leave it alone ($100 for deer under 50 pounds) Left is a doe and fawn pair. Notice round rump and shoulders of the fawn compared to the square blocky body of the doe. Note head comparison to the photo above. 2

You pick the one to shoot: long neck vs short neck, head size, which one has corners versus

Oh yes, and don t forget to look between the ears. c. Behavior Fawns i.

Fawns are often seen first or alone in woods or field iii.

3 You pick the one to shoot: long neck vs short neck, head size, which one has corners versus a rounded body, muscular appearance of the rump and shoulders? Oh yes, and don t forget to look between the ears. c. Behavior Fawns i. Fawns in general are not as alert, Buck fawns are worse ii. Fawns are often seen first or alone in woods or field iii. Frolicking, running, not paying attention d. Behavior Does i. Listening, looking, leading, sniffing, head alert, always paying attention e. When in doubt don t shoot. Use good judgment Which deer is alert? 3

2) Beware the devil deer a. We have spikes in much of the southeast, predominantly because of late birthdays and not because of genetics (this is different than Texas, but we aren t in Texas) i.

4 2) Beware the devil deer a. We have spikes in much of the southeast, predominantly because of late birthdays and not because of genetics (this is different than Texas, but we aren t in Texas) i. These deer are 10 to 14 months old (as opposed to a full 18 months old) and have the body conformation approaching that of an adult doe (not really a 1.5-year-old deer) ii. Antler development of these deer started later and is probably less than half that of a deer that are 18 months old 1. Often seen alone or as the mid-sized deer in the family group 2. Study the head a. A 30/30 deer. Watch him for thirty minutes at thirty yards and maybe you will see his points. b. At 3.5-years to 4.5-years old, he has as much potential as any other buck out there. 3. All deer have funny tufts of hair on their head, but theirs should be bigger. b. When in doubt, don t shoot. Use good judgment. 4

Above is a side and frontal view of the same deer. With the frontal view, the antlers blend into the ears.

Does isolate themselves from buck fawns before and during the rut. These fawns then join up with other buck fawns as well as with 1.

i. Big/Little no longer works as now you have a male pair (button fawn & spike) versus a doe/fawn pair. ii.

5 Above is a side and frontal view of the same deer. With the frontal view, the antlers blend into the ears. 3) Things change with pre-rut & rut (we are talking about does, fawns and spikes) a. Does isolate themselves from buck fawns before and during the rut. These fawns then join up with other buck fawns as well as with 1.5-year old spikes. Some of these spikes are obvious; others are the devil deer (i.e. spikes not visible above the hairline or just barely over the hairline). i. Big/Little no longer works as now you have a male pair (button fawn & spike) versus a doe/fawn pair. ii. Must look between the ears for knots or small spikes iii. Groups can also be more than 2 in number, looking like a maternal family group, but watch out as they are really a bachelor group of young bucks. b. When in doubt, don t shoot. Use good judgment. Dead deer don t grow! 5

6 4) Study the Behavior a. Does are alert b. Fawns are not c. Buck fawns are typically less alert than female fawns i. They could be compared to a 6 year old boy: walking, running or playing without a care ii. The devil deer or young spike being more like the young teenager who knows that girls are likably different and is trying to figure out how 5) Things that get you in trouble a. Being too eager b. Not having good optics (scope and binoculars) c. Reaching for the scope instead of the binoculars d. Long shots e. Shooting too early or too late (low light situations) f. Shooting the lone deer in the field g. Not considering behavior h. Waiting until late in the year to harvest your does. The body differences are not as evident as the fawns begin to age 6) Buck Management & Harvest Data (As I understand it, the goal of this club is to get bucks to a minimum age of 3.5-years-old) a. At 3.5-years-old a buck is considered mature as most of his body structure (skeletal) is complete. Extra protein and calories from this point on can go into additional muscle and antler growth. b. Harvest data collected by you was used to develop the harvest criteria currently in place on the Dixon Center (thus the importance of the data you collect) i. According to your data, most bucks with an inside spread greater than 13 inches are 3.5- years-old or older 1. There are always exceptions to the rule c. 3.5-year-old bucks are just beginning to express their adult potential i. The best bucks on the Center are 4.5- and 5.5-years old ii. At 6.5-years-old and older, I believe you are beginning to see decline 1. But this could change with improved annual food resources 2. Older bucks are more weary and, to a large degree, become nocturnal a. They did not get old being stupid 3. Some older bucks do not play a large role in the breeding game d. If the club decides to further tighten the rules trying to manage for a more mature buck (4.5- years and older), the thing to do is increase the spread limit or become better at identifying bucks by age using body conformation i. Targeting bucks that are a year older would yield better antlers at the skinning shed, but it is likely that fewer bucks would be harvested overall e. The key to growing 3.5-year-old bucks, or trying to grow them older, is as simple as dead deer do not grow. i. When you shoot a buck fawn, you killed a future shooter ii. When you kill a spike, you killed a future shooter 6

7 iii. When you kill a 2.5-year-old, you killed next year s shooter 1. In your program, harvesting a buck at 2.5-years-old is the ultimate mistake a. He is on the verge of making your target b. You have invested 3 years into this deer f. Regardless of your slot limit there will be deer, of the desired age classes, that do not make the slot for some reason. i. The reason could be lack of high protein food available at the correct time of year. 1. Antlers grow from extra protein available in a deer s diet at the time of year that the antlers are in velvet. 2. If a 4.5-year-old is below the slot due to a lack of available protein, he could be over the slot limit next year if protein was made available during antler growth. g. The reason could be injury. i. Rear leg injuries impact the opposite side antler, often creating some type of antler deformity. ii. This deformity typically stays with the deer the rest of its life, but it does not necessarily mean it will be small, just different h. The reason could be genetics. i. We can t tell by looking at antlers if they are the result of the genetic factors or environmental factors; however, time and research have taught us a little. 1. In the southeast, antlers of 1.5 and 2.5-year-old deer are no indicator of their potential future antlers. 2. At 3.5-years-old there is a higher percent chance that the basic antler conformation you are seeing will be what he carries forward. a. He may add antler mass and, generally get bigger, but he is beginning to show what he is. 3. At 4.5-years-old, you are basically seeing what he is in terms of basic antler conformation. a. Again if protein is in excess, you may see him add mass, abnormal points or general antler size, but if he is a high rack, diamond 8-point that is what he is going to be, just a little bigger. 4. Data has shown that antler conformation of deer less than 3.5-years-old is no predictor of future sets of antler. a. A deer that has 6 points when he is 2.5-years-old, means nothing for future antlers. b. A 6 point at 3.5-years old has a high chance of remaining a 6 point for life, but not a guarantee. c. A 6 point at 4.5-years-old or older will almost always carry that antler configuration forward to future ages. i. Usually the big 6 is a buck with no brow tines, but you will see the example of brow tines and 2 other points on each side ii. That is not to say he won t be a bigger 6-point, but probably just a 6 with size. 7

8 7) Taking this line of thought into conversation of our management buck: a. We give you an opportunity to harvest a 4.5-year-old or older management buck that may be sub-standard for its age, based upon data collected on-site. Why he is sub-standard is debatable (i.e. food, genetics, injury), but he must be a mature buck to fall within this harvest classification. b. You are not guaranteed to shoot any bucks just because you pay dues. The management buck is not intended to serve as a gimme, a mulligan or a chance for you to make a mistake and roll it into the management buck slot after ground-checking. c. The management buck is not intended to be used for that nice 7-point you shot and want to roll into the management category. A standard 4-point by 3-point buck (7 pts. total) should be classed as a club buck and not a management buck (in my opinion). d. The management buck should be a minimum of 4.5-years-old (as of 2014) and have a 13 inch inside spread and be at least 3 points on one side. i. He could have less antler and be older for all I care, but we had to draw a line somewhere. e. The management buck is not a 2.5-year-old 6 point. i. Remember dead deer don t grow and your club wants them at least one year older. ii. The management slot is to remove older deer that we feel do not appear to meet our goals. f. Management bucks will typically have greater antler mass from the bases to the tips of the antlers and will have mature body characteristics. i. Large belly ii. Sway back iii. Muscular hind quarters g. Management bucks do not have pencil thin antlers with sharp points nor do then typically weigh 110 to 120 pounds. i. Bucks of this type are the babies we are trying to carry forward 8

The buck on the right appears to be a big 6 with plenty of spread and mass throughout the antlers.

9 IS HE A MANAGEMENT BUCK? Yes or Maybe So. Velvet always makes a buck look bigger, but ignoring that, are they shooters for the club? Based on the spread of antlers to ear-tips, both probably make the minimum spread. Will one make the management criteria? The buck on the right appears to be a big 6 with plenty of spread and mass throughout the antlers. His profile might show he is only a big 4, thus not a 3 on-a-side (but we had to make the rule somewhere). Body conformation is what you will need to rely on for age. Which do you shoot? The buck on the left may only be a 7 point and would qualify for 4 on-a-side. Body wise he looks a little smaller, less neck definition and less muscular, thus probably younger. The buck on the right appears more muscular with more noticeable hips and shoulders along with an older looking snout. My choice would be take the management buck and let the other one grow another year. Management buck qualifier or not? No brow tines, thus at most a 6 point or 3 on-a-side, but there appears to be 3 points on his right antler. Ears are lying flat, thus probably 16 inches tip to tip. He appears to carry mass throughout the antlers. Is it old enough? It is hard to see the body from this picture, but antler criteria would lead me to him being a management shooter. At this age, a deer with no brow tines will probably not develop them in later cycles. If you are not sure, don t shoot. This may be the same deer in velvet in the previous picture. 9

A management shooter or not? Deer #2 appears to be an old deer looking at his body: Sway back, deep belly, defined neck and facial features.

Deer #1 could be the offspring of #2. Based on his body, I don t think he is that old. Less chest and back, neck not as thick and face not as defined.

He has brow tines, so he is at least 6 point. Let s assume he is only a 6 point. Is he wide enough? Ears almost flat, but pitched a little forward.

10 A management shooter or not? Deer #2 appears to be an old deer looking at his body: Sway back, deep belly, defined neck and facial features. Although still in velvet, antlers appear to have mass from base to tip. Bases appear to be 6 inches around and antlers have abnormal points (also typical of age). Shoot him. Deer #1 could be the offspring of #2. Based on his body, I don t think he is that old. Less chest and back, neck not as thick and face not as defined. Again he is in velvet, but his antlers do not appear to carry as much mass. I d let him walk. Deer #1 Deer #2 Management buck qualifier or not? He has brow tines, so he is at least 6 point. Let s assume he is only a 6 point. Is he wide enough? Ears almost flat, but pitched a little forward. Probably not 16 inches wide, but I d guess more than 13. Good mass, but maybe not carried to the tips. Body looks thick, but not as muscular or defined as I d like to see him to be a 4.5-year-old buck. Maybe he is a 3.5-year-old 6 point? Maybe he will only be a 6 point at 4.5-years-old? If so, he will be a better 6 point. If you are not sure, don t shoot. 10

IS HE A MANAGEMENT BUCK? No or Maybe Not. Same deer, different angles. A management shooter or not?

Spread probably makes it and he has no brow tines. Is he old enough? Look at the body.

What if you shoot him and he was just an awesome 2.5-year old buck? Let him walk!

He may just make the spread, has 7 points and has a big body, but I don t think he is an old buck.

He does not carry mass into the antlers and really does not have much mass at the bases.

11 IS HE A MANAGEMENT BUCK? No or Maybe Not. Same deer, different angles. A management shooter or not? His profile has his beams almost to the tip of his nose, but not quite. Spread probably makes it and he has no brow tines. Is he old enough? Look at the body. Flat back, no pot belly and no obvious muscular definition in shoulders, neck or face. What if you shoot him and he was just an awesome 2.5-year old buck? Let him walk! Many members shoot this buck and will be pleased with him. He may just make the spread, has 7 points and has a big body, but I don t think he is an old buck. I may be wrong, but look at him. He does not carry mass into the antlers and really does not have much mass at the bases. His body seems big, but not muscular. His neck and face are very thin. He is a really nice 2.5-year-old or a marginal 3.5-year-old. In either case, another year and he d be a much better deer. No, he is not a management buck, a cull or old, but he keeps showing up at the shed and people seem surprised when I seem pissed. No mass, no body, no spread and should not be dead. However, he was dead 5 times last year. He is either a fine 1.5 or marginal at 2.5- years-old. Don t shoot! 11

12 The same story as before. 6 points or 3- on-a-side, but we don t just give those away because you joined the club. At most they are 2.5-years-old which means that, as a club, we have invested almost 3 years into these deer. Don t shoot! Take time to look, breath and be a little more patient. 8) Aging bucks using antler characteristics and collecting the data: a. Estimating the age of deer on the hoof is difficult. Body characteristics and antler data collected from harvested deer are the tools used to age deer on the hoof. Both take practice. Learned behavior from successful harvest and failures also add to the knowledge of a hunter. The most important thing is look first. Use the ID tools that are found in current literature and the information obtained from local harvest data to help you decide the age of the deer before shooting. Just like with does; quick shots, excitement, long shots and shots at low light result in a young buck lying dead on the ground. When in doubt, don t shoot. Use good judgment. Let him go, let him grow. i. When you make a mistake, bring it in. You will get harassed by someone and you will pay a fine, but learn from the mistake and move on. The Ethical Hunter will not waste a kill and a Good Member will not pollute our data by sneaking him out the back door or leaving him in the woods. If you are not both, we do not want you! b. Antler points are the least reliable antler characteristic for determining age of bucks i. A point is measured from the base of the main beam to the top of the point. To be considered as a point, it must measure 1 inch in length. 12

13 c. Antler basal circumference is the most reliable characteristic for determining the age of bucks, but it is the hardest to measure on the hoof. i. We record this measurement in circumference and it is distance around the main beam measured between the burr and the brow tine or 1 inch above the burr in the absence of the brow tine. d. Main beam length is another reliable tool for aging, but less reliable in some places than spread (see diagram under basal circumference) i. This is measured along the outside curve of the main beam from burr to tip. e. Inside antler spread is reliable for estimating age of deer on the hoof, but it is not perfect. i. It is the widest point between the two main beams, measured at right angles to the centerline of the skull 9) Some general tips to think about for aging on the hoof with antlers: a. Basal Circumference (mass) i. The width of a deer s eye is roughly as wide as an antler with a 3 to 3 ½ inch basal circumference, but it is kind of hard to get them to look you in the eye very long. 13

b. Inside Spread i. The distance between the tips of a deer s ears at normal alert is 14 inches. He won t make the minimum.

The ears are in the normal alert position which will measure 14 inches tip to tip.

Does he have any main beam mass, mass to the tips and what is the muscular conformation of his neck? This guy will make the minimum.

14 b. Inside Spread i. The distance between the tips of a deer s ears at normal alert is 14 inches. He won t make the minimum. The ears are in the normal alert position which will measure 14 inches tip to tip. Antlers clearly are inside the ears. He marginally close to the minimum. The ears are in the normal alert position which will measure 14 inches tip to tip. The outside of the antlers are just at the tips, leaving the inside measurement pushing 13 to 14 inches. Does he have any main beam mass, mass to the tips and what is the muscular conformation of his neck? This guy will make the minimum. His ears are a little lower than normal alert position, thus tip to tip will be greater than 14 inches. The inside measurement of his beams appears to be as wide or wider than ear tips, thus at least 14 inches (probably more). Does he have basal mass and mass to the tips? How about the muscular conformation of his neck and body? ii. Ears lying flat are about 16 inches. The flattened ears on this buck are at least 16 inches wide. Could the mass also tell you something? 14

The flattened ears on this buck will be 14 to 16

15 The flattened ears on this buck will be 14 to 16 inches wide. c. Main Beam Length i. Considering a profile view of a buck: 1. A main beam that extends to the tip of a deer s nose will measure at least 18 inches. From our data, beams of this length indicate a mature deer. This will not hold true for those bucks with a diamond or high rack conformations. Antlers at or past tip of nose Antlers not to the tip of nose 15

10) Final thoughts to live by or leave by! If you shoot them, bring them in. This adult buck was found during burning season and appears to have had his antlers cut off and carcass left behind.

If I catch you, you will be gone from here and every lease property and Game Warden that I know in the Southeast will know your name. If you did not want the antlers, why did you shoot him?

16 10) Final thoughts to live by or leave by! If you shoot them, bring them in. This adult buck was found during burning season and appears to have had his antlers cut off and carcass left behind. There are two ladder stands and one green field within sight of this location. If I catch you, you will be gone from here and every lease property and Game Warden that I know in the Southeast will know your name. If you did not want the antlers, why did you shoot him? Female deer make better hamburger. This was an excellent 2.5-year-old buck harvested from the property. Back straps and hind quarters were removed, but antlers were thrown to the gut pile. At least cut them off and pretend you wanted them. Prepared October 2014 by Joel S. Martin, Certified Wildlife Biologist & Registered Forester. Photo credits go to the Quality Deer Management Association, Joe Hamilton and many members of Little Pine Hunting Club, Andalusia, Alabama. 16

A Hunter's ~uide to Aging and. judging Live white-tailed Deer in the southeast

A Hunter's ~uide to Aging and. judging Live white-tailed Deer in the southeast A Hunter's ~uide to Aging and judging Live white-tailed Deer in the southeast Rapid growth of deer populations, the overharvest of bucks, and the underharvest of does have created overpopulated deer herds