Healthynomics Podcast Episode 28 Mark: Hey, everybody. I've got Jay Johnson here. Jay, welcome to the show.

Transcription

1 Healthynomics Podcast Episode 28 Mark: Hey, everybody. I've got Jay Johnson here. Jay, welcome to the show. Jay: All right. Thanks Mark for having me. Mark: Yeah, no problem. I've been looking forward to talking to you for a long time. I've been a big fan of your work. I've got your book in front of me and I've listened to many of your podcasts, which have helped me become a better runner. So, anyways, it's great to have you. So can we start? Maybe you can just give us a bit of a background on you? Just sort of where you grew up, where you went to college and how you got into running and eventually becoming a running coach? Jay: Yeah. So I grew up in a little town that south... Well, it's not as little anymore but it's called Castle Rock, Colorado, just South of Denver. But I mean it was a small town when I grew up there and ran. I mean fast forward to college, once I got to college at the University of Colorado, all the teammates, kind of, ahead of me, and behind me, and then in my class, none of them had ever run in, like, elementary school summer track programs. But I did do that like third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade. So, yeah, I ran when I was younger and I was a serious basketball player in high school. But I think my junior year, the writing was on the wall that I was gonna be a better runner and started training a little bit harder, but it was a different era. I mean ran 30 miles a week, roughly in high school, which is, you know, almost a joke now for high school kids. I actually have a camp at the University of Colorado that I've been doing for... Let's see, this will be 16th year doing the camp. It's called the Boulder Running Camps. And, you know, 30 miles a week for a... I mean I was serious my senior year of high school, you know, to think that... I mean I did 10 miles once in high school and I've done 8 miles twice. Mark: So what are high schoolers running now, just out of curiosity? Jay: Yeah, I mean there's a range. I would say a serious boy at camp isn't running any less than 40 or 45. And we don't have any of the teams

2 coming to our camp who are doing let's say 65, and 70, and 75 miles a week. At the high school level, you could consider that kind of a high mileage program. The one asterisk I'd put on that is I think, you know, at least in the U.S., a serious high school athlete should take their summer training very seriously and be able to put in more miles then because they're not in school. So you might have a woman, you know, a girl who is running 50 miles a week during the summer and then box down to 45 during the school year. Or a boy who hits 60, maybe even 65 for a couple of weeks in the summer but he's gonna average around 50 or 55 during the year. But yeah, I was barely fast enough to run at the University of Colorado. I ran 4:25 for 1600 meters. I grew up at 5000 feet of elevation so, you know, had I been at sea level, I'd be about a 4:19 probably. Mark: Yeah. Jay: Like just barely under 4:20. Yeah and I ran at CU. My coach was the iconic Mark Wetmore who, I think at this point, it's either him or John McDonald who will go down as the most successful cross-country coach in the history of the NCAA. You know, since Mark and Heather coach both and women, I think the nod has to go to Mark. But when I was there at CU, we weren't a nationally recognized... I think the team finished third my freshman year. So I mean it's just becoming a national contender. And then I ran on the team and that was chronicled in "Running with the Buffaloes," the book Chris Lear. And so Adam Goucher, who won the NCAA championship, was my roommate in my first two years in college. You know, I'm sure we'll talk about my marathon book at some point, but I mean he still lives in the area and came out to the book signing. And, you know, I had another teammate come out who lives locally. No, I had two or three teammates that came to that book signing. So, there is... Yeah. So ran at the University of Colorado when Chris Lear wrote "Running with the Buffaloes." I was starting my master's in kinesiology and applied physiology and I knew I wanted to coach. So after getting that master's, I went to... The only job I could get, basically, was at a junior college in Kansas. But looking back, it was great because I was the head coach. So, all the recruiting, you know, even things like fundraising at the small community college, I was able to do those things. But then, I had the opportunity to go back to CU and be an assistant coach for Coach Wetmore for six years.

3 And then we had our first child and I decided to get out of college coaching and be a stay-at-home dad. But I also coached professional runners-up in Boulder at that time. I was living in Denver at this time and coaching professional runners. So I coached three different U.S. champions, one guy Brent Vaugh, one U.S. cross-country woman, Renee Metivier Baillie, won a 3K title indoors. And this guy Fernando Cabada who won the U.S. 25K Champs when I was working with him. And I coached some other post-collegiate or professional athletes as well that didn't run quite as well but still ran at a high level. You know, I coach adults online. I have a client base of about 20 right now. You know, if anybody's listening out there and you want a coach, I've got room for a little more, not too many more. Then I alluded to the Boulder Running Camps, which is this high school running camp that I've been doing, you know, for... This will be year 16 and we're expanding. We have three camps in Boulder and then we're expanding this year to one camp in San Diego as well. Mark: That's awesome. Jay: Yeah, that's sponsored by Nike. I'm really blessed to have, you know, a really noteworthy Nike sponsorship where kids get a shirt, a backpack, and a pair of shoes from Nike. And it's a custom backpack, a custom shirt for our camp, a nice pair of training shoes so. Having those relationships has been really nice for camp. Mark: That's great. Thanks for the background, a little bit of history on you, and give the people a bit more context as we chat further. So, as I mentioned earlier, my audience is primarily beginner runners, people who are just, sort of, starting out on their journey. Perhaps maybe they've run a 5 or 10K in the past. So excited to see where our conversation takes us. So my first question, I guess, is for beginners and, you know, when they're just getting started out. How do they structure their training to start? Is there a place for walking in the beginning? Jay: That's a really good question. I think, you know, Jeff Galloway is the one who's really popularized this idea of a "run walk." I've got two clients right now out of the 20, so that would be 10%, who are on a run-walk

4 program. One woman is a woman, I believe in her mid-'50s or so. Actually, I should know her age exactly but I don't but she's fantastic. She's somebody who's run, you know, many marathons but is coming back from a pretty significant injury. So she's doing something where she might run for 70 or she might be out there on her feet for 75 or 80 minutes. And she might chunk it where she does 15 or 16 minutes of running and then a 1-minute brisk walk. Now when you put that all together, it's pretty like a 75 or 80 minute run, okay? I have another woman I coach, who's in Minneapolis, who's younger but has also had some injury issues. And she does... I kind of leave it up to her. She had some hip issues that came up back in December. And so for her, you know, over the course of a 15-minute run, she might only do 6 minutes of running and 1 minute walking, or 10 minutes running and 1 minute walking. What I think is important and this is just a little background to you, I really think you need to progress through. You race a 5K, and then you race a 10K, and then you run a half marathon if that's what your goal is to run a half marathon. But if your goal is run a marathon, you have to do those three distances first, okay? I see this too often and granted, I'm the author of the book called, "Simple Marathon Training," right? So I believe people should run the marathon if they're motivated to. But that book, for most people, will assume that you've run a half marathon already. So to go back to, kind of, this "run walk" thing, I think you really have to keep the walk brisk. And I think when you're going from, let's say, just getting off the couch or, you know, going from a more of a sedentary lifestyle... Or maybe you're somebody, you know, who's done some other athletic activities but you just haven't run seriously, I think it makes a lot of sense to do the "run walk." But I do think that you know, running a 10K is realistic for most people and not having to walk that. The flipside is you go to the half marathon, which is over twice as far. I mean well over two times as far. I don't think there's any shame in walking part of that race. I coach an international athlete as well, somebody who started the "run walk" program and he now runs half marathons really well, you know? So to your listenership, I think if they're willing to be really patient, and by patient, I mean over the course of three or four months to a year, to a

5 year and a half. You can go from somebody who isn't a runner to somebody who can run a full marathon, or excuse me, a half marathon, or a marathon too if that's what your goal is. But I think the halfmarathon distance is the sweet spot for a lot of people who are new to running. Mark: Okay, that's great. And what about running for time versus distance in the beginning? Is time on your feet the more important piece to look at in contrast to running a certain distance on a training run? Jay: Yeah. And I'll use my "Simple Marathon Training" book. You know, it's gonna be a simple running training. Simple running training is the... Oh, what's the term? The imprint of the... I have a small publishing company now that's gonna, you know, make multiple books. So simple running training, this approach is foundational to the "Simple Marathon Training." And the idea is you have one workout during the week. The subtitle to the book is "The Right Training for Busy Adults with Hectic Lives." So assuming your listener out here is somebody who is busy and has a hectic life, we wanna run by minutes during most of the runs during the workweek, okay? Mark: Okay. Jay: Because you wanna know that, "Hey, I have an hour for the workout" or, you know, "I have an hour for the run but I have to do five minutes to warm...you know, to do the lunge matrix and leg swings, which we can talk about. And then I have 10 minutes to do, you know, core strength, hip strength, and hip mobility after the run." But at least I can say, "Hey, I need 75 minutes to be able to do all that." And for some people, it might only be a 40-minute run. So then you do 5 minutes, and then 40 minutes, and 10 minutes so now you're at 55 minutes. But I think on the weekend, running for miles makes a lot of sense. I think that you know, that's the time where if your loved ones and your family are bought into you becoming a better runner, you can approach and say, "Hey..." Whether it's a 5-mile run or a 10-mile run or a 20-mile run, you can commit to running that distance, you know? I think Saturday morning is best for most people. Because you just knock out that run and then have the rest of your weekend to do what you want. So it's minutes, you know, during the week and then it's a run based on mileage on the weekends.

6 Mark: Okay. And then what's the best way or is there any particular method that you would recommend? Like, to facilitate the transition from someone, like those two women who you're coaching, who are taking walk breaks to continuous running? Or is it just more of a "play it by ear, see how you feel" type thing? Jay: Yeah. I mean these are not your normal runners who hire me in terms of... They're not abnormal but my point is they're very serious about their training. So they're chomping at the bit to do the entire 50 minutes, or 80 minutes, or 90 minutes as a run. Does that make sense? And if anything... Mark: Makes sense. Jay:...I'm the one holding them back saying, "We still need to do the walk breaks because it's..." You know, to use Coach Wetmore, my college coach, use one of his terms, he talks about "the next logical step." So if you're starting from a place where you can only run a mile or 2, and you wanna run a 10K, which is 6.2 miles, then it makes sense that you're gonna have some walking breaks, you know, in between when you're doing your 4 or 5-mile run. But if you take the next logical step, week after week after week, you should get to where you can run five miles, and six miles, and seven to eight, you know, and so on. Yeah. I think that if you're motivated, you're going to over the course... I mean it could be a month, it could be 12 months. But at some point, you're going to advance to where you're running the whole time. And just to give you an example, like, you know, one of the clients, she's doing about 50 or 55 minutes on her easy day. And she's doing it in chunks of like 14 minutes of running and then 1 minute of walking. Well then, she can back down pretty soon to just a 40-minute run with no walking or a 45-minute run. So the idea is you build up to more time on your feet with the walking but you've got those walking breaks. And folks when I say walking, it's a brisk walk. It's not just like you're running and then all of a sudden you just are walking slowly. It's a brisk walk to keep your heart rate up. But then, at some point, you go back down to just, you know, doing a nice, slow run the entire time. Mark: Okay. I hear a lot from my readership and listenership about their common struggles. And I see some common mistakes but what are some common mistakes you see with beginner runners?

7 Jay: I would say in races going out too fast, I think is really important in not having a sense... You know, one of the things about simple running training is that you're going to learn to run by feel. Now this isn't a new...there's basically nothing in simple running training, that's a new concept that I came up with. I mean there's maybe two wrinkles we can talk about that are a little bit different. But learning to run by feel, so not using your Garmin and running a certain pace. Or not using your heart rate monitor to run at a certain heart rate. But just learning to run at a comfortable pace. So, you know, let's say you're racing a 10K, you should be pretty comfortable... Not comfortable but you should be running very controlled for the first three or four miles and then it should get exponentially harder. But learning how that sensation, that feeling of running a controlled pace, a challenging pace but a controlled pace, I think is important. I think that's a mistake that beginning runners make a lot of times is, you know, there's music at the start line and everybody is excited. And then the gun goes off and you just get caught up in what everybody else is doing. And you go out too hard instead of paying attention to how your body feels and running at the appropriate pace. Mark: I know, I'm that. Jay: Yeah, exactly. Yeah and we all have it. You know, I'm somebody who has only run, I don't know, maybe a couple of road races in my entire life. But, you know, because I was a high school athlete and collegiate athlete but ran a ton of races. And whether you're running, you know, a collegiate 5K on the track, or you're running your local 5K where there's music playing at the start of the race, it's easy to get caught up in the energy of that race. But I do think it's more so for people running road races to just the way they kind of hype up the start line. It's just easy to end up, "Going out too hard." There's one more thing too. I think just a general mistake is not being patient with your training. You know, let's say somebody is going from only running a mile or two a couple of times a week to saying, "I wanna run a half marathon," that's a big jump from 2 or 3 miles all the way up to, you know, 13.1 miles.

8 And, you know, being able to really be patient with your training and not be in a hurry, I think is hard. And I think so often, you see new runners being impatient in trying to make that jump too fast. And then the third thing is, you know, I'm a big believer in non-running work. So there's this acronym SAM, S-A-M, for strength and mobility, so specifically, core strength, hip strength, and hip mobility. So I believe you have to do the SAM work after every running workout. And the idea is you do that work to "strengthen your chassis," right? Now, your engine is your aerobic engine. It's your heart and lungs and that aerobic metabolism will improve quicker than structurally. You know, your muscles, and your tendons, and your bones, and your ligaments, or whatever. You know, your chassis doesn't improve and get strong as quickly as your engine improves. And so, so often, you know, two to three months into training, you see people with injuries whether it's an IT band, or plantar fascia, or a patellar tendon issue, a knee issue. And it's because they've gotten fit which is fantastic, but their chassis, their structure isn't able to handle their engine. And so, I firmly believe that you gotta do your non-running work while you're doing the running work. And a lot of runners... New runners are pretty open to this, which is really nice. It's people who've run in high school and maybe in college and, you know, are just used to putting in the miles that don't necessarily like to do that type of work. But again, in the simple running, training system, you've got to do that work every day that you run. Mark: Yeah, I'm a big fan of that work. So that leads to a couple of other questions I have, I guess. So, what does the structure of a workout look like for a beginner? You know, I'm thinking you're gonna tell us, it's gonna look similar to a beginner to what a pro does. How is the structure from the warm up to the run to that strength and mobility work that you say you should do afterwards? What does that all look like in, say, like a 45-minute time increment that someone might have? Jay: Yeah. Let's say the run is 45 minutes, okay? And then we'll say that then we have an hour of workout, okay? So folks, you can look this up online and find the videos for this. You do the lunge matrix, so LM for lunge matrix and you do leg swings, LS. So LMLS, lunge matrix, and leg swings takes five minutes and that's how you need to warm up. And yes, you're listening to an audio but you gotta write this down, and then check it out on YouTube, and see what you need to do for your warm up. That's what you should...

9 Mark: Sorry to interrupt you but I'll put the links to all these things in the show notes as well. Jay: Yeah, okay, cool, cool, all right. Mark: Okay, keep going, I'm sorry. Jay: Yeah, thanks, Mark. So then the idea is then you have your 45 minutes to run. And like on an easy day, 45 minutes might be an easy day for, is an easy day for a lot of that the adults that I coach. Because again, like they only have an hour to work out so 45 minutes is the run. Now, I wanna come back to this, the idea of doing strides in the middle of that run. But then you know, you finish with 10 minutes of the SAM work, I'm talking about. So now, you'd have 5 minutes of warmup, 45 minutes of running, 10 minutes of... It is kind of cool down type work the way we have SAM organized. If you just follow the exercises, from start to finish, you know, from minute 0 to minute 10, it's going to bring your heart rate slowly down. Yeah. So, that's what you have for 60 minutes. You know, strides folks, when I say strides, it's a short amount of running so it could be 20, or 25, or 30 seconds, at 5K pace most of the time. So if you're running for...if you're training for a half marathon or a marathon, you just run at 5K pace and then you would take... And again, you don't look at your watch necessarily. You just kind of run by feel. Like, "Okay, this kind of feels like 5K pace." And then you jog really easy for 60 to 90 seconds in between those strides. And one of the things that I think is novel about the simple running training, you know, that you can read about in my "Simple Marathon" training book is this idea that you do the strides as part of that 45 minutes. And historically, you know, whether you're a high school runner or you're a professional runner, the idea was you do your run and then you do the strides afterwards. But the problem was, so often, people would run out of time, the busy adults would run out of time and they'd end up skipping the strides. And you need to do strides a couple of times per week. For the very beginning runner, it's not as important. But if you're somebody listening to this, where you've run in some 5Ks, run in some 10Ks, maybe you run a half marathon and you're trying to run a PR, you need to be doing strides twice a week.

10 Mark: When you're doing this SAM or strength and mobility work, and the lunge matrix, and throwing in the strides there a couple of times a week. What changes will the runner notice to their running? I guess it's hard to explain a little bit but to me, I feel like a stronger runner. I noticed it from my wife video recording me running but my running form changed in a good way. I just became a more efficient, stronger runner. But I'd like to hear from you what will the runners notice when they start doing this work on a regular basis? Jay: Yeah. I think what you're gonna feel is you just feel stronger, kind of, biomechanically when you're doing the SAM work. And strides, I'll touch on that in a second but when you're doing all this work, you know, it's strengthening your hips, strengthening your glutes. You're just gonna feel stronger and you're gonna feel better running faster paces. Does that make sense where? Mark: That makes sense. Jay: You know, sometimes harder workouts kind of feel out of control when your body is weak. But, yeah, that's something, you know, that you're just gonna feel like a stronger athlete. The runs or strides, you know, from... I mean basically, the template of this week would be your easy runs on Monday and Friday. And then you'll workout on Tuesday and then you'll long run on Saturday. So you're doing the strides, for instance, on Monday before your Tuesday workout. And that means that you're going to feel better on Tuesday having done some faster running, i.e., the strides on Monday. Okay? And then the same thing for the long run on Saturday. If on Friday, you did some strides and you're running 5K pace. Now when you go to do the long run on Saturday, it just feels easier. Yeah. Mark: I like it. And what about stretching? Where does that fit in? Do you recommend stretching? If you do, when should runners fit that in? Jay: I believe in active isolated stretching or active isolated flexibility is another term for it. Or the term you guys are gonna remember is called rope stretching where you use a rope to do some stretching. And my friend, Phil Wharton and his father Jim Wharton have brought this work into the running world. They've been doing it for three decades now, I think and... Oh, you gotta look it up. I mean this should be in the show notes, Wharton Health. So look up, you know, Phil Wharton's rope

11 stretching and there aren't many examples on YouTube. There's a couple of videos of Phil doing things for "Running Times," you know, the now defunct magazine that was awesome. But, you know, there are still some videos out there. Static stretching, you know, and let's use an example too. Let's stay static stretching is similar to yoga where you're holding these poses for a while, and you're breathing, and whatnot. I think that has less of a place compared to the rope stretching. But the rope stretching is something you haven't seen before. If you're really serious about being a better runner, you really should get to consider doing the rope stretching. Mark: Okay. Yeah. Jay: And it's something that if I've got 20 clients, probably 10 of them do it and the 10 that do it, I mean, I'm gonna knock on a countertop here just because I don't have any wood. But, you know, knock on countertop, they're all staying healthy. But I think the rope stretching, you know, if you were to go back and do some sort of analysis, there would be a strong correlation between the athletes that do rope stretching not the athletes who don't have injuries. Mark: I wanna ask you to about plateaus. So a lot of people get frustrated when they plateau. Maybe a beginner runner has been at it for six months or something and they notice, they stop getting faster for whatever the reason. Is there any particular workouts that you might recommend for it to help people perhaps get faster and stronger that they might not be doing in the beginning? Jay: So you're asking for a specific workout to... Mark: Yeah or different workouts Like perhaps, it's some kind of an integral workout or, I don't know, some kind of creative work out that maybe different than just a person going out and blasting out a long, long run with strides. And maybe it's something with regards to hills. I'm not sure. I just keep [inaudible 00:28:29] your thoughts. Jay: Yeah. You know, I think the progression run is a really simple workout that people can be doing. So let's say you do something like... You know, the one that I use the most often with the class I work with. They'll do a 10-minute warm-up jog, and a 10-minute cool-down jog, and then they're gonna do 50 minutes of a progression. So that 50 minutes is comprised of 20 minutes at a steady pace, then 15 minutes a little bit

12 faster, then 10 minutes a little bit faster, and then 5 minutes fast but controlled. And so, you have to change pace. You have to speed up three different times in that workout. And what it teaches you, it teaches, you know, a couple of things. But the first is to run conservatively so that you have the ability to speed up. And number two, it teaches, you know, how to pay attention to how your body feels. To make sure, "Okay, I'm speeding up but I'm not speeding up too much." And then that last five minutes, I mean you have to be really focused. You're gonna be running the fastest pace that you've run throughout the workout and I always want people to say, "I could have run five more minutes." You know, you're doing a fiveminute segment at the end but I want them to say, "I could have run even 5 five more minutes if I had to," meaning that they could have run 10 minutes at that final pace. Mark: Okay. Jay: So it's not a hill workout, it's not an interval workout. If the listenership is more of the beginning runner, I think there's a lot to be said for staying away from the track. And just being on dirt roads and trails, and doing progression runs, and fartleks. You know, I have a workout where we do 4 by 8 minutes with 3 minutes steady running in between, so that's a solid 41-minute workout. You know, you just wanna be doing aerobic workout. So the idea that you'd go do... You know, if a lap is 400 meters and you do 10 by 400 and stand around for 60 seconds. I mean that workout has its place in, let's say, 5000-meter training. But for most people listening to this, that's not what they should be doing right away. Mark: So I wanna respect your time. So before I get into asking you about your new book, again which I have in front of me, I wanna ask you too. What are some of your favorite resources, or books, or podcasts, or any running resources, other than yours which, of course, I'm gonna recommend to everyone. But any other resources that you can provide for the runners out there? Jay: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of good training books out there. I really think that "Simple Marathon Training" is the book you should buy for this simple reason. It teaches you the simple running training method that works for people. You know, who have a lot going on in their life and need to keep things very kind of straightforward and simple from week to week.

13 Obviously, the "Daniel's Running Formula" is a great book but I do, sometimes, take issue with you know, that everything is based on paces. And the problem with that is that if you wake up, let's say, on a Tuesday morning, and your child was up until midnight coughing, and you got three hours less sleep, you're not gonna feel as well as you normally do. And so, hitting the paces that are prescribed in that book isn't gonna make as much sense. One book I would, and I think he's been on your podcast, Matt Fitzgerald, his book, "Run." It's not one of his most popular books. The title is "Run:" and the subtitle is, I think, it's called, "The Mind-Body Method of Running by Feel." But it's all about running by feel. So that would be the number one book I would recommend. And then this one probably doesn't fit your listenership. But for people who've run multiple marathons and have the ability to put in a lot of miles, I think, "Advance Marathon Training" is a great book. Mark: Whose book is that one? Jay: So that's Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas have written that book. And, you know, it's at least 10 years old, maybe it's 15 years old, but it's really good information so. And then a book that I have to mention but I don't think you should go out and get it. Arthur Lydiard's book, "Running to the Top" or you know, the copy I have is called, "Running the Lydiard Way." It's basically the same book. If somebody is into the history of training and, you know, that's a great book but it's kind of hard to decipher. So unlike, let's say, the other two books, you know, the "Daniel's Running Formula" where it says, "Do this on this day." The Lydiard book, I mean it says, "Do A, B, and C on, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday," but it's harder to understand how that training works. Mark: And then your book came out was it a month or two ago? Jay: Yeah. It came out November 1st. Yeah, November 1st, Mark: Okay. Jay: Yeah.

14 Mark: And it's called "Simple Marathon Training: The Right Training for Busy Adults with Hectic Lives." Jay: Right and I think the subtitle is, you know, it's really important that if you're a busy adult with a hectic life, which I'm going to assume a pretty large percentage of the listenership is, the training is made for you. And let's, you know, compare to that, let's say, "Advanced Marathon Training," which is a great book but it has people running 70, 80 miles a week in some of their plans. And a lot of people can't handle that. Mark: And would you say your book... And I think it would but even if you're not considering running a marathon, I think this book gives you all the tools and everything to even move from beginner to a 10K or a half marathon. Jay: Yeah. And, you know, I'm working on the half-marathon book as we speak and, you know, the first I'm looking at the book right here. Is it 45 or 49? The first 49 pages of the book of "Simple Marathon Training" are going to be very similar to the first 49 pages of "Simple Half- Marathon Training," which will then in a couple of years be very similar to "Simple 5K and 10K Training." Does that make sense? I mean there are some core principles I believe in such as running by feel, such as doing the lunge matrix and the leg swings. Doing the SAM work after your run. Doing a weekly long run. You know, focusing on your aerobic system. So this goes back to these track workouts or hill workouts. You're not doing track workouts or hill workouts, you're doing things like a progression run like we talked about. Doing strides in the middle of your run on your easy days. In the book, I talk about eight ingredients. And then I'm glad you brought the stretching thing up because it's eight ingredients plus one, And the plus one is the rope stretching. Yeah, so those are principles, you know, that fit somebody running a 5K as much as they fit somebody running a marathon. Mark: Awesome. And where else can people connect with you online should they wanna reach out or check out more of your work? Jay: Yeah. I think my website. I mean it's pretty easy to remember. It's coachjayjohnson.com. If you go to that site, then you can sign up for my newsletter. And, you know, I put up my newsletter twice per week on

15 Thursday and Sunday and I feel like I put my best workout via my newsletter. I also host a podcast called the "Run Faster Podcast." So if you like listening to running podcast, check out the "Run Faster Podcast." I mean Mark, I'm going through yours on itunes right now looking at it and you've definitely had some high-powered guests. So, I'm gonna have to work on my guest list. Mark: Oh, you've got some good ones. I have to tell you now the interview you did with Dr. Trent Stellingwerff was a game changer for me. Because that totally changed my mindset and focused me more on fueling for my second marathon, and it was a game changer. Yeah, I felt so much better in my run and my time it was much better as well. Jay: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So coachjayjohnson.com, the "Run Faster Podcast." And folks, feel free to me. It's coachjayjohnson@gmail. And then also on Instagram and Twitter, So I did a decent job of like locking it all down to Coach Jay Johnson. Mark: That's awesome. Well, Jay, thanks again for coming on to the show. We all appreciate your time and expertise. And maybe you'll come back again once you get the half marathon and...or at least your halfmarathon book done and we can chat some more. Jay: Yeah, spring 2017, Mark, I would love to be again and talk about the half marathon. Mark: Awesome. Thanks again, Jay. Jay: Okay. Thanks Mark.