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2 Interview of: Interviewer: Place: No. of tapes: 1 Length of tape: 30 Minutes University of Baltimore Oral History: Mamie Johnson Goodman Mamie Johnson Goodman Reba Cottingham Negro League Baseball Store Middelton, Maryland Initials, Side Minutes Topic of Discussion RC Introduction, Name of what team she played for. The number of females that played on the team. She gives the names of the female which played. RC Who formed the team? Age she started playing baseball. They made the baseballs that they played with. The number of players on the team. RC How she felt being a female playing with all men. What was it like playing for a Negro League. How she was treated. Did she have to try out for the team? What type of facilities did they have? What was her batting average? RC What states has she played in? Did the team play out of the country? How were living conditions? Type of work she did while playing baseball. RC Does she remember any stories about the great depression. Was she ever paid as a baseball player? Did she receive a pension after she stopped playing? During the Civil Rights Movement how was the team affected? Where did all the players come from? Did family come to the games? How her husband felt about her playing ball. Who owned the team? Where she is currently living? Name of all the teams she played for, pro and semi pro. ii

3 Biographical Information Name: Mamie Johnson Goodman Nick Name: Peanut -Joe Barnes gave her that name because she was so small. Birthdate: September 27, 1935 Birth Place: Ridgeway, South Carolina She started playing as early as the age of nine. There was nothing else to do. Her Uncle taught her to play baseball. They would make their own baseballs. Later she moved to Washington D.C. Schools: Brown Jr. High School in Washington D.C. She moved to New Jersey for a short period of time and she attended Lold Branch High in New Jersey Mother: Della Belton Father: Gentry Harrison Husband: 1: Charles Johnson 2: Edwardo Goodman Children: son: Charles adopted son: Gary Mamie played for the Indianapolis Clowns in Mamie pitched and played utility second base. She pitched for the Clowns for three years. Compiling for the following status Bat: right Throws: right avg.: win-loss: Semi pro St Cyprians, Alexandra All Stars, Lancanston A.C. iii

4 Interview with Mamie Johnson Goodman a Pitcher for the Indianapolis Clowns Today is November 28, 1998 I am sitting here with Mamie Johnson Goodman, Hi Ms. Goodman Hi, darling how are you? Okay. I want to ask you something, first which team did you play for? The Indianapolis Clowns in pro ball and semi pro I played for St. Cyprian and Alexandria All Stars. How many females played on the team? There were three. Toni Stone was first, I was second and then there was Connie Morgan, they are both deceased now. Who formed the team? There was a gentleman by the name of Mr. Roul Foster in That is when it was formed by where I do not know. How old were you when you started playing baseball? I was very, very young, when I started playing ball down South. That was all we really had to do at that particular time. I learned to play with the fellows and it was enjoyable to me. That when we were making our own baseballs then. 1

5 Really, you made your own baseballs? Yes, we did we made our own baseballs then. It was and enjoyable thing because that was our past time at that particular time there was nothing else to do, so whatever the fellows did I did too and that was baseball. Do you remember how many players were on the team? Well our team carried twenty-two when we were playing. How did you feel being a female playing with all those men. Honey, I felt enjoyable it was wonderful to me to know that I was good enough, to be out there with the fellows and it made me proud, because it was something that I had always wanted to do, and with that it was enjoyable to know you know just being there was just fine with me. What was it like playing for a Negro League? Well, see what happened with that and thank God for it, I tried for the White Women s League and they looked at me like I was crazy as if to say what do you want and bless God the fellows came along about a year later. I got a try out from a man by the name of Mr. Bitz Tyson, he introduced me to Mr. Buddy Downs who was the Manager for the Clowns I got a try out, and I made it. How were you treated being a Black? Beautiful honey, beautiful, I don t know see I would say this back then fellows were gentlemen and I think that there is a different breed of young men back then, then we have now we were raised different and that made our character different it s a whole lot different now then it was then. Young men came from families were they were taught character and respect and all those kinds of things for me to be there really. 2

6 There were white women baseball leagues but there were not any Black women baseball leagues. No, the white women league was highly recognize but there was no black women and there was segregation then just like it was for the fellows it was for me to try to play with them they just rejected me. I guess because I was Black or whatever but I felt like I was just as good and look just as good and could play just as good. So just thank God for the fellows coming along it was a tremendous thing for me. Did you have to try out for the team? Yes, I tried out and I went back and Mr. Downs told me to met the Bus and I did and I was gone. Did you share the same locker rooms or did they have different facilities? Well, what we did we would either change before the guys or after the guys but we share the same facilities but a whole lot of time there weren t any facilities for changing we had to change on the bus and some places we went we were not able to buy any food, but we made out some kind of way you know that s were you go back to segregation but we knew it was there, so it really didn t bother us because we knew it was there and we knew that we wasn t wanted so why put yourself in a position where you re not wanted so it didn t bother us at all. What was your batting average? We ll I think I got an average of about let me look here it s been so long ago. What it says here. I have to look honey. 263 to 284 yeah that s what it is. What states have you played in? 3

7 Every state there is Canada and wherever. I don t think that there is a state that I haven t played in. Did the team ever go out of the country? Yes, we went to Canada, but some of the fellows during the winter months went to Puerto but I never went. What were living conditions like? Well, we sleep on the bus most of the time because we travel like in the day, because we played mostly night games. When we did get up to nice towns that had nice hotel we stayed in them, buy it was still the segregated thing. But, the Women would stay together? Oh yes, I mean we stayed in the hotels but then there was provision made for the women we would stay like in peoples home and they were very nice people. The fellows would stay mostly in the dingy hotels or whatever but we stayed in people s home were it was very nice. Now I need to ask you what type of work did you do before you started playing ball, after you were playing ball? After I was playing bail I came back and I went to nursing school and I retired as a Nurse. During the time when you were playing ball you didn t work. No, I did not work. You weren t around during the Great Depression, I do think, but do you remember any stories about that time far as baseball? 4

8 No, people want to say that it was hard but when you are doing something that you want to do and that you enjoy doing it is not that hard because the hard part of it you don t even think about. You think about what you are doing and a whole lot of fellows wanted to say that it was hard but I don t see where it was hard. Even with the older fellows that were there way before me they don t emphasize the hardness of it because this was something that they wanted to do they were ball players and there wasn t much pay or whatever but they enjoyed it. It was something they wanted. But, did they get paid? Yes as far as I know they did. Did you receive a pension after you retired from baseball. No, no, no, we don t receive a pension that I know about but some fellows do. I think at least I was told but for that to be correct I don t know. I know that I don t. During the Civil Rights Movement do you know if that affected your team in any way? No, no because like I said before we knew segregation was there and we didn t put ourselves in a position for it to affect us, because if I know that you don t want me at your house or whatever then I am not going to come there. And it is the same thing with the restaurants if I know that they don t want me there and they are not going to serve me then why am I going. I mean that s stupid you know so that s what happened with that. Do you have any idea where the other team players came from? 5

9 They came from every state there is to come from, darling. There are books that you can find that will tell you where some of the players came from and whatever and I don t think that there is a state that is listed that the players did not come from and also Cuba. We had a whole lot of Cuban players that played with us. Did your family ever come to any of your games? Oh Yes, when I was close by like in DC I played in Griffith Stadium and in Baltimore, and Virginia when I was close by they came. Do you remember what age you were when you first started playing baseball? When I first started playing baseball down South I think sweet heart I was about nine. Then I continued from then on in New Jersey, I started playing with the little fellows and whatever and then I ventured to Washington D.C. And I continued to play I played all my life. So when you got married did your husband come to any of your games? Oh yeah, he came. How did he feel about you playing baseball? Well, it didn t make any difference because I was going to play any way. So rather he like it or not it was immaterial to me because that was something that I wanted to do. He could have liked it didn t make any difference. When you went to stay at people house for games, was this prearranged? 6

10 Yes, by Mr., Downs he took care of all that we never really had to worry about where we were going to stay, that was all prearranged for the fellows and us. Was Mr. Downs the owner? No, he was our business manager and Sid Polock was our owner when I was playing. There wasn t any thing else to do down south but to play baseball. If you wanted to play, you played. So I just liked baseball. I have an uncle who played baseball very well and he taught me how to play. The more I played the better I got. I was happy you know. We are sitting here in your shop how long has it been open? This is really not my shop, this is my son s shop, and it has been open since the middle of April of this year. Where are you currently living? I live in Washington on Fourteenth Street NE, where my mother brought a home over 50 something years ago, and I live with her. You still live with your mother? Yes, I still live with my mother. I am not going anywhere. So you really started play in 1950? Pro I started in 1952 and big Pro I started in 1953 and played 1954 and 1955 with the Clowns but semi pro it started back in Name all the teams that you played with Semi Pro and Pro. Semi pro was Alexandria All-stars, St Cyprians, Langston AC s those were the semi pro and pro were the Indianapolis Clowns. 7