1 -- How did you contact Jorge Salcedo, how did you conceive the story, what brought you to it or made it attractive for you?

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1 Responses to Questions from El Tiempo Oct. 6, How did you contact Jorge Salcedo, how did you conceive the story, what brought you to it or made it attractive for you? One day in 1998 I learned from a trusted news source that an important Cali cartel figure was about to make an unannounced public appearance in a Miami federal court. The cartel man was in the U.S. witness protection program. I didn t know his name. I didn t know his story. But because it is so rare for an American journalist to even get close enough to say hello to someone in witness protection, I was immediately intrigued. I flew from Los Angeles to Miami to attend the hearing and hoping to meet him. In the courtroom before the hearing I introduced myself to Salcedo and his U.S. Marshal bodyguards. At that point, my interest was simply to write a newspaper story for the Los Angeles Times. We talked for about 10 minutes. I gave him my telephone numbers at the newspaper, and then I took a seat. What followed was one of the most remarkable legal proceedings I ve seen in 40 years as a journalist. Salcedo was in court to plead guilty to a single count of racketeering, a serious felony for which he could have been imprisoned. But the Justice Department prosecutor spent most of his time telling the judge how much Salcedo helped bring down the Cali cartel. A federal customs investigator took the witness stand and praised Salcedo for saving the life of a key witness and for risking his own life to help capture the head of the cartel. It was a love-fest. Very clearly, the United States government held Jorge Salcedo in very high esteem. Even his prosecutors said he was heroic. Judge William Hoeveler thanked him for his contributions to justice. Instead of jail time or even a figurative slap on the wrist Salcedo received kudos and a pat on the back. I knew immediately that I had stumbled into one of the most unusual stories of my newspaper career What does Salcedo do now, what is his current situation in the United States? It s an odd thing for an investigative reporter to have to admit, but there are many things I don t know about Mr. Salcedo things that he keeps secret for his family s safety. He went into the witness protection program because the U.S. government believed (and is still concerned) that he could face violent retribution for his actions against the cartel. But to answer your question as best I can: I don t know Mr. Salcedo s employment history in the states. I don t know where he lives. I ve never met his family. I don t know the new family name they were given by U.S. Marshals.

2 3 -- How long did it take you to investigate the story? This story was one of the most fascinating and most frustrating of my career. After our courtroom meeting in the fall of 1998, Mr. Salcedo made a habit of calling me frequently for several weeks. Typically, he called the newspaper s toll-free number and we talked for two or three hours at a time. If I knew about a business trip in advance, I would advise him to call me at my hotel or at the L.A. Times bureau office where I was working. My interview notes quickly filled a dozen notebooks. After two or three months, I already had a phenomenal collection of cartel anecdotes and inside stories, but then Salcedo s calls became less frequent. And though I had a lot of raw material, there were too many missing details to write a major news story. Weeks and months went by between his phone calls. I couldn t call him I never knew his numbers. Finally, his calls stopped altogether. A year might go by before he would call unexpectedly. We d talk for an hour or two, and then he would disappear from my life again. You can understand my frustration. It was more than eight years before we finally completed a key round of interviews that enabled me to publish my first article about Jorge Salcedo in The Times in All of the interviews had been conducted over the telephone. After our initial 10-minute meeting in the Miami court, I did not see Salcedo again until the summer of That s when we met for three days under clandestine circumstances dictated by Mr. Salcedo to conduct our only in-person interviews for the book. I believe that over a span of about 12 years (1998 to 2010), I spent nearly 1,000 hours interviewing Mr. Salcedo by phone. 4- Who verified Salcedo's version of the story? Mr. Salcedo told many stories and corroboration took many forms. I interviewed prosecutors and investigators. I obtained court documents and trial transcripts including extensive testimony by former cartel accountant Guillermo Pallomari. I combed through books and news accounts of the period. But especially helpful was the cooperation of DEA. I had access to investigative notes, photographs, diaries and the results of exhaustive debriefing sessions with cartel informants. Through interviews spanning more than a decade Mr. Salcedo s accounts remained consistent from month to month and year to year. They also matched what he told DEA agents in those debriefing sessions. The seeds of my confidence in Mr. Salcedo s credibility were sown in that Miami courtroom where a no-nonsense prosecutor, a hard-nosed customs investigator and one of the toughest judges in the federal judiciary all treated Salcedo like a rock star of cartel witnesses. Since that day, I ve found no meaningful conflicts between Salcedo s accounts and those of any other credible sources. His stories are consistent with what s available in official documents and other records. I have found nothing that raises doubts about Mr. Salcedo s credibility.

3 5 -- What image of the Cali cartel did you use to tell the story? I m not clear about the intent of this question, but I ll say this: the Cali cartel as described in so much detail by Jorge Salcedo was very different from the Medellin cartel under Pablo Escobar and very different from most of the Mexican drug gangs today. The Cali operation was financially sophisticated and politically savvy. It thrived behind a reputation for generosity and good citizenship. Of course, that generosity bought off vital institutions of the government. The way I saw it, Colombian democracy was for sale and the Cali cartel bought it Do you think the Cali cartel was the biggest drug traffic organization in history? In its prime, the Cali cartel was operated like a vertically integrated corporation. It controlled the cocaine commodities business from local production to foreign street sales. It monopolized international drug markets, fixed prices at every stage and produced revenues in excess of $7 billion a year. It was more than the biggest drug trafficking organization in history. I agree with former DEA Administrator Thomas Constantine. The Cali cartel was the biggest, richest crime syndicate in the history of crime How do you describe the Rodriguez Orejuela brothers. They were business geniuses and endlessly fascinating as individuals. They were The Chess Player and The Lemon what great images. But outside of Colombia they have never been famous. An important goal of my book was to treat them as real people, to bring their characters to life like never before. Along the way, I found them to be complex, strong, vulnerable and altogether human. Yes, they could be cruel and ruthless. But they could also be frightened for the safety of their wives and children. They worked hard and expected dedication and hard work from their subordinates. They were rich beyond measure but had simple tastes. Their billions would have let them live out their days in Colombian luxury, but they could never escape The Business. Now, they re doomed to die in U.S. prisons. Shakespeare would have loved their story To complete the story, did you try to contact the Rodríguez or any of the protagonists Salcedo mentions? Some of them, yes but not the Rodriguez Orejuela brothers or William Rodriguez. All three were in prison during preparation of the book. I did not and do not now consider them credible sources. They cannot speak truthfully about cartel business without opening themselves or their families to further legal and financial difficulties. Besides, this book was intended from the start to be Jorge Salcedo s story, his view of life inside the Cali cartel.

4 9 -- What do you know about characters like Guillermo Pallomari? I know only that Pallomari is also in the federal witness protection program. I have never been in contact with him and have no idea where he lives or under what name. One of the most interesting things I learned while working on this book was that Pallomari believed Salcedo had been assigned by the Rodriguez Orejuela brothers to kill him. It was during Pallomari s debriefing in the U.S. that a DEA agent broke the stunning news that Salcedo had actually saved his life How much did Salcedo tell you about the presence of money from the drug cartel in the political campaign of ex president Samper? By his account, Salcedo had only indirect knowledge of the campaign payments. However, he led authorities to a cache of hidden cartel records that documented some of those payments. He also recounts in my book an incident in which a Samper emissary calls on the Rodriguez brothers. The emissary warned that the president was under pressure from the U.S., that his hands were tied, that he could not protect them, and his only advice to avoid legal trouble was don t get caught How deep was the cartel's penetration in Colombian institutions? The government was riddled with crooked cops and compromised officials. For example, at the Bloque de Busqueda the top aide to the military commanding officer was on the cartel s secret payroll. So was the national police commander s top aide. Even General Serrano s staff was compromised. One of his helicopter pilots went to flight school paid for by Gilberto Rodriguez Orejuela. There s more in the book According to Salcedo, the cartel tried to infiltrate the Colombian district attorney's office of the time, how far did they go to achieve this goal? I assume the question is about Attorney General de Grieff. If so, I really don t know the answer. But I can say this: The Cali cartel was no happier with de Grieff than the Americans were. When the AG wouldn t agree to cartel terms, Miguel complained. How can I bribe a man who drives an old Volkswagen? Salcedo says that he ends up tangled in the fraudulent maneuvers of the Cali cartel without wanting to belong to the organization; do you consider him a victim? Not in a traditional sense. Salcedo joined the cartel for reasons that were defensible and understandable at the time. Nonetheless, joining the cartel was a big mistake. Once inside the cartel, he had no easy way out. I would say that he was a victim of his own mistake.

5 14 -- What similarities do you see in the actions of the Cali cartel to those of other current cartels, like the Mexicans? The main differences are in the headlines. Pablo Escobar made headlines with terrorist attacks. Mexican drug gangs make headlines with beheadings and other gruesome assaults. But the Cali cartel tried to avoid headlines. It could be just as violent, but its victims tended to disappear into the Cauca River without drawing negative attention to the organization Do you think Jorge Salcedo kept his promise of not killing anyone, or do you think he did it indirectly with his actions? Mr. Salcedo can t escape the fact that his work helped the cartel do its business. He protected cartel officials from arrest. He set up communications systems that improved internal security and drug trafficking operations. He helped blackmail a Bloque official. He wiretapped Cali phones. And he kept secrets, covering up crimes. There is no doubt that he was an enabler of killers and traffickers. But he was also a decent man in an impossible spot which is why I suspect that he will always be haunted by that past. His story is also a story of redemption. When faced with a demand to take a direct role in murder, he balked. At great risk to his life and to the lives of his innocent and unsuspecting family, Mr. Salcedo did the right thing. I suspect that Colombians who lived through that era will understand better than most Americans just how treacherous and unlikely was Salcedo s escape from the Cali cartel What chapter impacted you the most? For me, the most disturbing chapter in the book is titled Her Name Was Emilia. It is the account of a killing frenzy that occurred in front of a shocked and terrified Salcedo. As mass murder is carried out around him, Salcedo is helpless to stop it. All he can do is try not to see it. That s how this otherwise decent man made it through 6.5 years in the company of killers with heavy use of willful blindness and self-delusion. But what other choice did he have?