Interview Summary Interviewee: Ronnie Semansha Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Chateh Administration Office Interviewers: Kathrin Janssen, Adena Dinn This [BC] is our traditional lands -Ronnie Semansha Hunting and Trapping Ronnie hunts for moose in British Columbia (BC) near Kotcho Lake along the winter access road that spans from Rainbow Lake to Fort Nelson. He once shot a moose adjacent to Cabin Lake. He also uses the Sierra Yoyo Desan road and the winter access road that loops around Kotcho Lake for hunting. He takes this route once a week beginning on Friday afternoons when he is finished work. Ronnie also hunts in the area near Kwokullie Lake; he travels there via the winter access on the 31 st baseline. Ronnie strictly hunts for moose in BC, and noted that there are hardly any caribou left. He explained that there used to be lots of caribou in BC but there has been a drop in recent times. Fishing Ronnie noted that there are pickerel in Kotcho Lake and explained that there are all different kinds of fish out there [BC]. Travel Routes Ronnie travels to BC using the winter access roads. He noted that there were two roads that he generally used, one from Rainbow Lake to Fort Nelson and one that cuts North to the Zama area (along the 31 st baseline). When he does go out, other community members will often accompany him and everyone chips in a little for gas and supplies. However, he generally goes out for just one day and does not require supplies beyond fuel. Transcript 13
If he cannot travel to a certain area via the winter roads then Ronnie will often use a skidoo and the cutlines to access those areas. Ronnie also travels to the Petitot River on occasion. Sites Ronnie pointed out the location of a cabin at Kwokullie Lake. He explained that this is an old cabin that he saw while hunting in that area. He travelled there via the winter road that is located along the 31 st baseline. Sacred Sites Ronnie explained that in the old days there was no way for the people travelling out on the land to transport the bodies of those that passed away back to Hay-Zama, so there are graves everywhere. Ronnie has only seen one grave on a hill in BC. This grave was located on a pipeline right of way and the route was changed and the grave marked. Traditional Knowledge Ronnie indicated that moose calve around Kotcho Lake in the spring. This is because there are willows surrounding the lake and that is the preferred calving habitat. They also like to stay near a water source during this time. Ronnie also noted that there is a moose migration through the area surrounding the Plant site in late July, August and September. During this part of their migration the moose head to the high ground that characterizes the Plant site. Ronnie explained that moose are generally more active in the morning just prior to daybreak and that is the best time to hunt. Ronnie stated that muskeg acts as a filter for water and explained that it soaks in all the contaminants. He noted that muskeg is good habitat for fox, lynx and marten. Observed Changes Ronnie has noted a drop in the number of caribou in recent years, he explained that there used to be a lot, but now there are hardly any left. Ronnie also noted that near wells and Plants there are often salt spots in the winter. These areas look like they are snow when actually the ground is not frozen and quads Transcript 13
can easily sink and get stuck. Ronnie explained that he avoids areas immediately surrounding industrial developments to avoid these salt spots. Ronnie explained that he used to trap but now finds it too far to go; he has a job with the Nation and does not have the time required for trapping regularly. Concerns Ronnie knows of a creek that flows from the Cabin Lake area into Kotcho Lake. He is concerned that the chemicals from the Plant could flow from that creek into Kotcho Lake and may eventually affect the Dene Tha downstream. He also notes that the creeks and lakes are used by fish for spawning and migration to the Hay River in the spring which could affect the DTFN food supply. He feels that this concern is especially relevant to the proposed Plant because it is in an area characterized as high ground, allowing chemicals to flow to the lower lying areas. Ronnie does not want freshwater issues for the Dene Tha downstream. Ronnie is also concerned that the chemicals from the Plant could kill the beavers. Ronnie feels that there is potential for bears to be affected by the Plant. He worries about bears being contaminated because some Dene Tha still eat bears and hunt them while travelling on the winter roads. He is also concerned that any berries in the vicinity of the plant site would become too dusty to eat. Ronnie has previously noted, while quading, berries near a Plant site being covered in dust from the roads that accompany this type of development and is concerned that this will be the case with the proposed Plant as well. Ronnie is also concerned that if the muskeg and trees that characterize the Plant site were removed, the animals would have no place to go. Ronnie also finds the increasingly restricted access in BC to be of concern. He noted that most places have signs indicating no trespassing, gates, and warnings about H 2 S. He understands the signs are necessary to warn people out on the land, but feels the Dene Tha need more access to their traditional territory; There needs to be balance. He is concerned that with more and more development there will be less and less access. Transcript 13
Interview Summary Interviewee: Steven Tsonchoke and Robert Tsonchoke Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Chateh Administration Office Translator: Robert Tsonchoke Interviewer: Adena Dinn, Kathrin Janssen Hunting and Trapping Steven is a registered trapper on British Columbia (BC) trapline #756T014, where he traps beaver and hunts moose. Steven explained that he used to trap with his brother and one other person but he is too old now to trap regularly and also only has winter access by vehicle. He trapped beaver at Kotcho Lake. He has previously trapped in northeastern BC for beaver, lynx and mink. Robert noted that he still goes out to BC every winter and hunts for moose most weekends. He travels there via the Sierra Yoyo Desan road to the Spruce Road, which takes him 5-6 hours one way. If he kills a moose before he gets there he turns back and heads home. Sites Steven identified a settlement site at the confluence of the Shekilie and the Hay Rivers. He noted that there are six burials at this location. Steven pointed out that burials and ceremonial sites are often located along rivers or adjacent to lakes. He noted that there is a burial around July Lake and another at Thinahtea Lake. Steven also identified the previous location of two cabins on his trapline; both of these cabins burned down. Transcript 14
Traditional Knowledge Robert indicated that there that there are a lot of caribou in the area near the proposed Plant site. Steven added that caribou roam in the swampy areas of northeastern BC and head north in the fall. Travel Routes Steven noted that in the past he would canoe along the Hay River and Kotcho River on the way to and from his trapline; the canoe was made from birch bark. The would generally head home from the trapline in the spring and would use the Hay River. Now Steven travels by vehicle using the Powerline Road which begins in Rainbow Lake. Observed Changes Robert explained that their trapline is still good for hunting, but things are changing because there are too many oil companies on the trapline. Concerns Steven has noted changes on the land. For example, there used to be a lot of moose in northeastern BC but now they need to go further south to hunt. Steven would like the logging to stop on the traplines. Steven explained that when a company drills the animals disappear and do not come back because they do not like the noise. He feels the Plant will lead to an increase in drilling. Transcript 14
Interview Summary Interviewee: Alex Wasp Colin Date: November 4, 2009 Location: Chateh Administration Office Interviewers: Kathrin Janssen, Adena Dinn Hunting and Trapping Alex hunts for moose in the area by Kotcho Lake via the winter access road that extends into British Columbia (BC) from Rainbow Lake. Alex always uses the access road to reach this area. He generally travels to BC with Ronnie Semansha approximately once a week. Alex has also hunted near Cabin Lake in the summer using the Sierra Yoyo Desan road and small access roads around Kotcho Lake. Alex noted that the area near the Plant site has a lot of moose. Fishing Alex noted that there are a lot of fish in Kotcho Lake, specifically jackfish. Travel Routes Alex generally travels to BC using the winter access road that originates in Rainbow Lake. However, he knows of another access road that cuts north from this road and loops around Kwokullie and Kotcho Lake. Alex always travels with other Nation members because he does not have a vehicle of his own. He noted that there are a lot of community members that travel to BC that he can go with. Concerns Alex is concerned that chemicals from the plant will travel through the creeks and end up in Kotcho Lake. He explained that there are a lot of fish in Kotcho Lake and feels that if the chemicals were to end up in the lake that it could kill the fish. Transcript 15
Interview Summary Interviewee: David Wasp Colin Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Chateh Administration Office Interviewer: Tracy Campbell, Adena Dinn, Kathrin Janssen Hunting and Trapping David explained that he has travelled and hunted with his father since he was 13 years old. Through his family and the community, David s father learned how to trap, hunt and fish on the British Columbia (BC) trapline #755T015. David prefers hunting for moose in BC using the winter access roads as a means to travel to the area. David explained that his father used to take him moose hunting at Amber River. They would travel there via horse team. They would hunt enough moose meat to dry and store for the winter. David reminisced about those days because it was really nice. David also traps for beaver and noted that back when his father would take him moose hunting at Amber River there were not as many beavers as there are today. He explained that the majority of his diet comes from the land and that given a choice between food from the store or from the land, he always prefers food from the land. David also hunts wild chickens in the fall and collects as many as he can explaining that it tastes better than duck. David made special note that Dene Tha rarely hunt alone because Fish and Wildlife release grizzly bears into the wild in many parts of their traditional territory. He personally encountered this on his Uncle, Louison Ahkimnachie s, trapline (#755T014). David had been hunting for days and when he arrived at his uncle s cabin he was told about signs in the area indicating the release of a grizzly in the area. David felt that the release of this large predator contributed to his inability to locate moose in this area. Fishing David uses a skidoo on the winter access roads to go ice fishing at Kotcho Lake. Transcript 16
Medicines and Berries David explained that his mother was knowledgeable about medicinal plants. She would know where to pick them and what they could be used for. He noted that she would collect medicinal plants near the bottom of the Zama Tower. Sites David knows of two burials located at the Fort Nelson First Nation Reserve, Fontas. He explained there are also buildings still standing at this location, but they are not occupied. Also, Charlie McCarthy had a cabin at Fontas that doubled as a small store and he remembers going there numerous times on his own and with his father. David noted the location of a cabin just south of Kotcho Lake which he last saw this summer (2009) when he was flown over the area during a field assessment for a pipeline. David explained that his family also used to have a cabin near the Bushe River Reserve. Travel Routes David uses the winter access road from Rainbow Lake to Fort Nelson. David explained that he also uses the highway going from Fort Nelson to Fort St. John and remembers when it was still gravel. David noted that he travels to work in BC using the both the main highways and the winter access roads. The main highway goes to Manning and then he continues west from Manning using a winter access road called Forestry Road. This winter access road separates into two forks near the AB/BC border. The south fork is called Lady Fern Road and leads to Doig River while the north fork is called Fontas Road and leads to the Fontas Reserve. David has travelled to Fontas using both horse teams and, more recently, vehicles. In the past, when David would travel by horse team, his father would always say that Fontas was just over the hill and was not far. David stated that he has travelled all over. David says in 1971 he travelled by dog team to his uncle s BC trapline #755T014 via the Shekilie River. During this trip they walked north to July Lake which is known as Tsuk-aye [phonetically] or Women s Place. David also recalled his mother indicating a trail near Rainbow Lake and a horse trail located near Zama Lake. He explained that she remembered former Chief Talley using Transcript 16
a trail going over a hill to travel from Alberta to BC. David noted that his father would travel using pack horses on this very same trail when he travelled to BC. David explained that when he and his father travelled they would stay on the high ground because the low ground was muskeg which made travel difficult. Observed Changes David noted the price of furs has changed over the years and currently the price of beaver pelts is so low that not many people bother to trap them; it is a lot of work for very little money. David related a trip to Bistcho Lake in 1971 where he constructed a canvas boat and paddled across the lake, then west along the Petitot River. David noted it s a really nice place to camp. David indicated back then there was not too much oil & gas and the land was good. David did, however, note that there were a lot of bears at that time. Concerns David is concerned about a Plant being constructed near Kotcho Lake stating it would not be nice. He felt if there was a spill or some kind of accident, that contaminants would get into the water and pollute both fish and wildlife. David explained that Kotcho Lake is large lake and that the Dene Tha continue to use as a fishing area. David noted that the community is afraid to construct cabins in areas near sour gas wells. He explained that people think it is risky where there is poisonous gas because they are afraid of the gas being carried toward the cabin on the wind. David is worried about the continued development because wildlife will avoid development and all that will be left in the area is fish. David noted that some animals stay away from seismic lines, so he worries if more seismic is done. David is also concerned about how information about new developments is communicated to the Elders of the community. David indicated that there are some Elders that do not have technical knowledge about oil and gas and do not understand why more development is continually occurring in their traditional territories. Transcript 16
Field Summary Participant(s): Robert Metchooyeah, Baptiste Metchooyeah Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Westcoast Energy Fort Nelson North Processing Facility Field Survey: Site Assessment Robert Metchooyeah and Baptiste Metchooyeah attended a one day site assessment of the Westcoast Energy Fort Nelson North Processing Facility on November 18, 2009. During this assessment Baptiste and Robert noted numerous concerns that could potentially impact DTFN Aboriginal and treaty rights. Consultation Process Baptiste and Robert indicated their concerns with the consultation process because an archaeological impact assessment report had been filed for the Project in July 2009 that lacked DTFN input. They felt that this, coupled with the November 18 th site visit was an unsatisfactory consultation process and did not capture DTFN concerns and knowledge about the Project area. This was highlighted by the site being covered by approximately 1 foot of snow which made it impossible for Robert and Baptiste to accurately assess the archaeological site or identify any traditional use areas. Both Robert and Baptiste expressed a desire to return to the Plant site when there was no snow cover. Baptiste and Robert were also concerned with the construction that appeared to be underway on the Project footprint. They noted heavy equipment tracks on the ground and felled trees. They felt this activity was inappropriate because the ground was not yet frozen and the project was still pending approval. Environmental Observations During the site visit Baptiste and Robert noted that the Project could result in destruction to woodland caribou migration trails, wolverine habitat, fresh water sources, medicinal plants, edible plants and animal habitat. They were particularly concerned with the disruption to caribou migration trails and wolverine habitat as these are species at risk. Robert and Baptiste expressed concern about the Project s cumulative affects to the environment and felt that there was a proliferation of gas plants in the area. Transcript 17