ScotWays Sigpostig Survey Scottish Rights of Way ad Access Society 24 Aadale Street, Ediburgh, 1 of EH7 21 4AN December 2017
Copyright The iformatio cotaied i this report is copyright of the Scottish Rights of Way ad Access Society (ScotWays). It may oly be used for o-profit purposes subject to the source beig ackowledged ad a lik icluded to the Society s websi. Use of this data i ay way to geera icome or profit is forbidde uless prior writ approval has bee obtaied from the Society. All photographs have bee take from the Society s sigpostig records ad the copyright ad moral rights of the origial photographers are preserved. The images o questio 7 are take from the Departmet of Trasport book Kow Your Traffic Sigs - Official Editio 2015. Photographers, where kow, are Richard Barro (cover, p4, p5 bottom, P11 three images, p12 oe image), Jo Doake (p9), Per Mackay (p10), Coli Cadde (p11,) Sigpostig at ScotWays Sigpostig of rights of way by ScotWays has bee goig o sice its iceptio. Whe Adam Black, Lord Provost of Ediburgh formed the Associatio for the Proctio of Public Rights of Roadway i ad aroud Ediburgh oe of the early tasks udertake was the sigpostig of paths too ad through the Petlad Hills. Aroud 40 years la Walr Smith lead a party from the reamed Scottish Rights of Way ad Recreatio Society o a expeditio through the Mouth ad Cairgorm gles to sigpost rights of way. Oe of the sigs istalled aroud that time, 1885, ca still be foud ear Aviemore poitig people to Braemar at the start of the Larig Ghru. Betwee 1995 ad 2003 the Scottish Rights of Way Society udertook three large sigpostig projects. The 150th Aiversary Project, Sigs Across Scotlad ad the Natioal Jubilee Sigpostig Project. Betwee them all some 2,000 directioal ad advisory sigs where istalled. Sice 1997 sigposts have bee recorded o CROW the Catalogue of Rights of Way ad ow this sigpostig data is beig trasferred to a geographic iformatio sysm to visually show the locatio of sigposts across Scotlad. Today the Society s records details of 3,176 sigs. Why the survey There is o legal duty o ay priva or public body to sigpost paths or rights of way, but there is a legislative power that allows local plaig authorities to sigpost rights of way ad for access authorities to sigpost ay path. The Scottish Govermet has ecouraged sigpostig of paths through its various lad maagemet schemes ad govermet agecies such as the Forestry Commissio has a history of ecouragig sigpostig through its grat schemes. Today sigpostig is beig udertake by may orgaisatios, icludig local commuities ad ladowers. The Scottish Govermet has idicad that it wats to see all core paths sigposd ad access authorities aloe have sigposd 12,341 km of the core paths i Scotlad (57%). Give the icreasig sigpostig work beig doe by others should ScotWays still sigpost paths? If it does still sigpost rous, which are the oes it should sigpost? Are the types of sigpost used today still the correct oes to use? This survey sought peoples views to help the Society s directors i their decisio makig o the future of sigpostig by ScotWays. 2 of 21
About the Survey The survey was carried out usig Google Forms ad was publicised i the Society s Aual Report, set to all members ad through the Society s social media chaels. The survey was ope from 22 October util 10 November 2017. Our social media chaels put the survey i frot of 8,284 people. Each respodet had to record their respose with a email address where more tha oe respose was submitd per email address the oe respose was chose at radom. 213 uique resposes were recorded. Te further resposes were discoud usig the above email rule. The email addresses showed that resposes were made by the geeral public, ScotWays members, directors ad staff, busiesses, ladowers, local authority staff, atioal orgaisatios e.g SNH, charities, volutary groups, commuity coucils. Oce the above checkig had bee compled, the email addresses were the deled ad the results show below are a amalgamatio of all those received ad caot be attribud to ay idividual respodet. 3 of 21
Results of the Survey. A very small umber of people commed o the actual survey otig that the majority of the survey questios were compulsory ad closed meaig that oly specific aswers were allowed. This is true ad the survey was desiged i a very cotrolled way to aswer very specific questios. Kowig that people may wish to commet further questio 12 was desiged as a ope catch-all questio where ay commets could be left. People did take advatage of this opportuity. I the xt below iformatio ad questios icluded o the questioaire are show i italics with resposes ad commetary show i plai xt. Sigs have bee put up by ScotWays with either oe, partial or full fudig from various sources. These all bear our ame either as a fiial atop the post, a strap or pla attached to the post or o the frot or back of the sig pla. Q1) Have you see ScotWays sigs out i the coutryside? 8% Yes No 92% Q2) Should we still put up ew sigposts o rous? 10% Yes No 90% 4 of 21
Although there is o obligatio to maitai ay sig ad other people ow some of those we have istalled, a tatty sig reflects badly o ScotWays. Q3) Should we actively maitai sigs that bear our ame irrespective of owership ad age? 9% Yes No 91% The followig questios assume that ScotWays cotiues sigpostig. There are ow a variety of rous sigposd - rights of way, core paths, cycleways, log-distace rous, heritage paths etc. Whilst there is o legal requiremet for ay orgaisatio to sigpost these rous some grats require the paths they support to be sigposd ad the Scottish Govermet has expressed its desire to see all core paths siged. Q4) Should ScotWays oly sigpost rights of way? 48% Yes 52% No Q5) If you believe that ScotWays should sig paths other tha rights of way, what types of paths do you thik they should sigpost? 85 suggestios were made ad are show here. The resposes have ot bee alred to correct, spellig, grammar or obvious typographic errors. If you believe that ScotWays should sig paths other tha rights of way, what types of paths do you thik they should sigpost? Heritage paths. Is there a differece? All access rous would be so good for walkers ad horse riders. It makes for advetures ad discoveries of ew otherwise ukow wys. 5 of 21
All rous, iclude estimad time ad provide way marks i betwee, obviously there is a eed to prioritise the well used paths. Ay clear paths used for foot access ay footpath or trail where it is ot clear where it leads ay iformative directios are useful Ay or all that are useful, but particularly customary or heritage rous Ay path that you thik it would beefit havig a sig Ay path where sigage is advatageous to users whether that's the start ad ed of a right of way, dubious juctio o a RoW, ay log distace path; geerally it would be helpful if sig-age was stadardized ad/or carried out by a sigle orgaizatio so that there is cosiscy across Scotlad for siged rous. Ay viable walkig rou Ay well-frequed rous where footpaths would ehace safety. As may as possible As may as possible to ecourage people to get outdoors core paths Core paths Core paths Core paths (if eeded), ad a few others e.g. "usually ope" rous Core paths ad "hard to fid the start of" paths, whether they are rights of way or ot. Core paths ad accepd rous eve if ot ROW. Presumably it would have to be agreed by ladower. Core Paths ad Cycle paths where o sigage already exists. Paths show o ordiace survey maps Core paths ad heritage paths Core paths for sure. If fuds permit ay of those metioed i the questio. Core Paths where appropria, if LA does ot do so; but ot all Core Paths Core Paths, ad other locally importat access rous. These should be idetified i collaboratio with access authorities ad local commuities Core paths, ay paths Core paths, cycleways, log distace rouso etc. Core paths, log distace paths, heritage trails... core paths, log distace rous, Cycle ad heritage Cycle paths Cycle paths Cycle paths, mai paths etc Drove roads, rous suitable for horses Established paths used by commuity; ew path liks 6 of 21
Established rous that form importat liks to rights of way or other sigificat rous such as those lisd above. Famous class rous such as Jock s Road etc which I thik may already be a row. But ot sigs to sigify ways up moutais such as Aoach Eagach. Oly through rous ad log stadig paths of historical irest. Heritage paths Heritage paths Heritage Paths, Hill Tracks, Core Paths, well used ad kow local paths Heritage paths, key irsettlemet liks ad uplad rous (possibly more?) Historic paths ad locally importat rous which may ot have bee covered by Coucil's core path plas for a variety of reasos Historic paths, those with heritage value which may be lost/uused/urecogised without sigage. Historical drovig rous - paths of historical irest such as coffi roads Historical, atural ad geographical irest. historically irestig paths I do't thik you should sigpost aythig I feel that Scotways sigs are idicative of the exisce RoWs, ad that's your USP but obviously I'd like to see more sigposts o other paths. Each local authority has its ow style of sigage but Scotways could potially help them istall ad maitai sigs by elistig voluers to audit sigage, etc. I feel they should oversee to fill i the gaps where sigage is eeded. I thik Scotways could make a useful cotributio to supportig Core Path etworks ad some of the ewer Log Distace Footpaths I would have preferred a "Not Sure" optio to the last questio I ihabid lad, useful paths; i the wilderess, importat through rous. Is ot the cocept of RoW a osese i Scotlad? Kow paths that are't ecessarily rights of way or core paths but are paths i use Log distace trails Log distace, heritage /a Noe, except ways which skirt cotroversial rou where the alra rou is of beefit to public, farmers, ladowers Etc... Not sure how ladowers would react to sigposts which are ot rights of way. Obvious access ways. With Right to Roam it eed ot just be Rights of Way i Scotlad Oly sig claimed rights of way that are marked as such o local authority maps ad are rous that are safe to use i all but exceptioal weather. Oly those where directio may be i doubt i poor weather i.e. split path Other hill tracks ad access poits Paths likig two ways or poits of irests Paths that Scotways actively promos i.e Heritage Paths (if appropria) ad SHT's 7 of 21
Popular rous Popular rous that are ot RoWs, esp where sigage may help avoid cofusio. Public paths Recogised local path etworks & Scotlad's Great trails rights of way, core paths, heritage paths Rights of Way, Heritage Paths, ay footpaths but ot cycleways Rous to places of irest such as battle sis, Geological or historical irest ad ay of the ew log distace walk rous Safe rous off exposed paths Sigpost the start of loger-distace or more remo rous (ie ot local core paths) where the begiig of the rou is ot obvious. Start of moutai rous maybe. Stop pollutig the outdoors with uecessary sigs. Stragic ad local paths which are ot beig sigposd by other orgaisatios, as core paths, or as part of a promod rou. As most of the ROW Scotways have siged are oly claimed rather tha asserd, surely it is immarial whether a path is a ROW or ot i rms of its sigage policy? Ad surely Scotways' irests ow exd beyod ROW? (if ot, why ot?) The issue is practical help where supplemetary ifo will really help the walker to get most out of the locale There are paths, perhaps i urba areas, that may ot be RoW i the traditioal 'rou across a field' sese, but would beefit from sigage that would also raise profile of SW I oe sese SW should't have to sig rous, LAs should do more - especially for Core Paths, but SG failed to provide moey that was iitially expecd whe the whole CP process stard! Those most used Those ot doe by la but are core path Traditioal rous ad ew trails Traditioal through rous with a historic irest walks/cycle rous of irest that people may ejoy. Or eve short cuts o a rou. You stop puttig them up ad take dow the oes that are up. They're a blight o the ladscape ad ot required. 8 of 21
Sice the early days of ScotWays our sigs have bee a gree backgroud with whi letrig. The reaso for this choice is lost i the mist of time, but our style ad colour of sig is icluded i the Traffic Sigs Regulatios ad Geeral Directios 2002 (TSRGD). These regulatios cover all road ad right of way sigs i Great Britai. Q6) Should ScotWays stick with the curret whi letrs o a gree backgroud? 5% Yes No 95% Q7) If ScotWays WASN'T to use whi letrs o a gree backgroud what colour combiatio should we use? This questio was oe of the few optioal oes ad was really oly for those that wad a colour scheme other tha the whi letrs o a gree backgroud. However, 105 respodets chose to provide a aswer. There was a optio to add your ow suggestio ad i additio to the results show i the graph below the followig commets were made. Wood, cast iro or othig There should be o sigs Roured le5ers o wood. Noe of these op;os seems be5er tha whi o gree Noe of the above- whi o Blue will get cofused with Na;oal cycle Network ad eve whi o Brow with a5rac;o sigs. Whi o Gree is great ad dis;c;ve. Noe No sigs please. More tradi;oal e.g. Wood Maybe brow backgroud, but ca't choose without seeig example. Do't care Do't be silly, curret colours are your brad 9 of 21
cycle rous leadig from a juctio ahead of a to a Sigs idicatigdirectio the directio parkig place atioal for pedalcycle cycles rou This sig iforms you that you are followig a atioal cycle rou with the umber show sigal-cotrolled crossig across a etry slip road. A sig may be used to direct cyclists to a sigal-cotrolled crossig Directio of a atioal cycle rou Directio sigs for pedestrias geerally havethis a blue backgroud sig iforms you Sigs idicatig the directio to a with whi letrig that youad are iclude followig a parkig place for pedal cycles atioal cycle rou the walkig figure symbol. I tow with the umber show cetres, especially pedestriaised This sig iforms you Sigs idicatig the directio to a otheracolours mayparkig be used that you areas, are followig place for pedal cycles ad the symbol may be omitd; atioal cycle rou Directio sigs for pedestrias with the umber show these sigs may also use differet geerally have a blue backgroud styles of letrig. Pedestria with whi letrig ad iclude rous to tourist attractios may sigs for pedestrias Directio the walkig figure symbol. I tow have brow backgrouds ad have a bluecetres, geerally backgroud especially pedestriaised those for public footpaths gree with whi letrig ad iclude areas, other colours may be used backgrouds. Sigs may theiclude walkig figure symbol. I tow ad the symbol may be omitd; distaces i yards or miles. cetres, especially pedestriaised these sigs may also use differet Pedestria ad cycle areas, other colours may stylesbe ofused letrig. Pedestria rou to a railway statio ad the symbol may rous be omitd; to tourist attractios may A public footpath may be these sigs may also use differet idicad by a yellow have brow backgrouds ad waymarker. A blue arrow is styles of letrig. Pedestria those for public footpaths gree used for public rous bridleways. to tourist attractios may Sigs may iclude backgrouds. The backgroud may be of Pedestria ad cycle have brow backgrouds ad i yards or miles. a differet colour rou to a railway statio distaces those for public footpaths gree backgrouds. Sigs may iclude 113 distaces i yards or miles. A public footpath may be Choice should be guided by research ito what is easiest for all to read. As appropria to seig Directio sigs for pedestrias geerally have a blue backgroud with whi letrig ad iclude the walkig figure symbol. I tow cetres, especially pedestriaised areas, other colours may be used ad the symbol may be omitd; these sigs may also use differet styles of letrig. Pedestria rous to tourist attractios may have brow backgrouds ad those for public footpaths gree backgrouds. Sigs may iclude distaces i yards or miles. A public footpath may be idicad by a yellow waymarker. A blue arrow is used for public bridleways. The backgroud may be of a differet colour 60% 113 50% 40% idicad by a yellow waymarker. A blue arrow is used for public bridleways. A public footpath may be Pedestria ad cycle idicad by a yellow The backgroud may be of a differet colour rou to a railway statiowaymarker. A blue arrow is used for public bridleways. The backgroud Pedestria ad cycle 113 may be of a differet colour rou to a railway statio 30% 20% 10% 113 po s Re s No d hi a pa gr ee i e g ri le t ck ba Sw W oo de le t w it h w rs o gr ou it z er la d d d i ye / Ye llo w k le t gr ee Bl ac rs o a llo w w as hi ol iv e ba ba ck ck gr ou gr ou d d gr ou ck ba le t Cr ea m le t hi W rs o a rs o rs o le t hi W br ow bl ac a a rs o le t hi W k bl ue ba ba ck ck gr ou gr ou d d 0% Q8) Should we still put our ame o sigs that we istall? 7% Yes No 93% 10 of 21
Over the years there have bee a variety of sig desigs ad marials used by ScotWays. Cast iro sigs (raised letrig) gave way to cast alumiium ad metal sheets with shaped viyl letrs stuck o (as most road sigs). There are some roud woode sigs ad a small umber of recycled plastic sigs. Sometimes a ladower or a orgaisatio that we are workig with dictas the choice of the marial. People have also commed that the roadside style of sig is iappropria i more rural, wild or moutaious areas. ScotWays has bee very astu ad has refurbished ad recycled may sigs. Some have bee had paid through the good offices of sig wrirs ad some have had ew viyl letrig applied. However, this does lead to qui a mix of styles across the coutry. Q9) Does it matr that ScotWays has a mix of styles of sigs? 25% Yes No 75% Q10) Should ScotWays cotiue to repair sigs or should they simply replace damaged oes with brad ew sigs? 27% Cotiue to repair or refurbish sigs 73% Replace damaged sigs with brad ew oes 11 of 21
I a image-coscious world, people may say that a lack of cotiuity i our style of sigage reflects badly o ScotWays. This could be addressed by ScotWays developig a more uique ad cosist style of sig, for example mirrorig the desig of some of our early cast metal sigs. Q11) Should ScotWays develop a uique sig type? 41% 59% Yes No Q12) Is there aythig else that you would like to ll us about ScotWays sigpostig or about sigpostig of paths i geeral? 107 people chose to leave a additioal commet. Some focussed o the desig of our sigs, some o where we should sig ad where we should ot. Others were supportive of our sigpostig activities ad some vehemetly agaist. What was surprisig, uexpecd, but very welcome was the commets left by people that simply said thak you for all you do ad keep up the good work. The full commets received were as follows. The resposes have ot bee alred to correct, spellig, grammar or obvious typographic errors. I eed more ifo about Heritage path sigig ad also the use of waymarks. My ow positive associatios are towards sigs i remo places where I believe the sigs should mark the begiig ad ed of importat rous with othig (or little) i betwee esurig rou users take resposibility for their ow progress. I am ot so coviced by the use of waymarks which I associa with more populad places, which appear to be so frequet that users may rely o them rather tha a map or guide. A ice ew sig/ga the suggests to the public that the path has had a makeover i my experiece this is ot the case. I feel a low cost/impact sig would be good with more beig spet to actually improve the surface of the walk/cycle rou. A stadard image is less importat tha esurig paths are clearly sigposd, especially at roadsides. Ordace Survey ad others should be strogly ecouraged to idica sigposts o maps: this is reassurig to those who lack cofidece. aythig is betr tha othig! As log as the iformatio is clear, I do't thik it's ecessary to sped moey o amedig/replacig sigs As log as the sigs are whi/gree ad have the ame of the rou ad Scotways I do't feel it's ecessary to have idetical sigs across the coutry, although over time if uique sigs are desiged, they would replace older sigs which ca o loger be used ad cosiscy could improve. 12 of 21
At the peak of sigpostig activity Scotways was i dager of becomig a sigpostig orgaisatio to the exclusio of other irests ad Local Authorities were iclied to use Scotways to get work doe o the cheap.i thik we should leave those with a resposibility to carry out this work to get o with it. avoid proliferatio of sigs, please. Oly use start of rou or where rous split Betr to be useful ad ot too obtrusive (e.g. o off - road sigage i wild lad) tha overly style - cocious campaig to have core paths o OS maps Compare with post boxes. All similar but differeces mak the age & heritage. Ejoyig seeig them i the wild lads of Scotlad. Meas a good adveture is about to begi. Existig sigs should ot be replaced with ew-style oes util they require repair or refurbishmet. Havig a uique style is ot that importat. Fatastic work doe my Scotways ad very much appreciad. Please do t feel pressured to adopt a more moder or tredy style, I loved them just as they are. It is always a great pleasure to see oe of your sigs ad reassurig that you are o the right track. Pleas keep up the great work. Far too may sigs i remo places. What's the poit of them? If you're out there you should kow where you are. For me, they're just aother form of litr. Further to the last questio, I'm i favour of ScotWays developig a style as suggesd, but I do't thik a sigle style would be appropria for all locatios. The icorporatio of the ScotWays ame o sigs is eough to promo the "image". Geerally excellet. I am more cocered about the quality of the path tha the quality of the sigpost. Oe risk is that where the path is poorly maitaied (or eve o-exist) ad yet there is a Scotways sig, the user might thik egatively of the orgaisatio. I dislike sigposts that have images of oly walkers & cyclists o them as it ifers other users are't allowed e.g. horse riders. Uder the access code, paths are accessible to a wide rage of users. I do like the woode sigs with egravig. They are perhaps more tactile ad bled i well i a coutryside settig. They are of used aroud my home area i Strathspey. I do't see the eed for the sigs, those that use them eed to have avigatio skills ayway which make the sigs redudat i the first place. I do't thik we should be fillig our beautiful coutryside with pieces of metal. If Scotways developed a more atural sig ad sigpost (woode) the I would say that they could be a beefit to users ad the area they are i. I feel this is importat particular for visitors to a area, I fid it frustratig myself i some areas whe mappig is ot so good, it does help I fid your sigs very helpful I get a ice feelig whe I see a Scotways sig. I kow there is some history behid the sig. Rather ot see other paths sigposd! I imagie cost is a big factor (agaist developig a uique sig for example) as well as voluer activity/grats to help maitai ad repair damaged sigs. Good luck! I like the historic ature of the whi o gree sigs you have, however, a mix of sig types shows you ca be progressive but without havig to overhaul ALL your existig sigs. I thik it shows thought ad care for the eviromet as well as thrift. If all your sigs are ID'd as Scotways the their history ad yours goes with them ito the future ad shows chagig thoughts o style ad marials. I like the old cast iro oes best. Happy to see that style i ew marials. Keep up the good work. 13 of 21
I love them! They are always a door opeig to a ew adveture: oe I am about to do; oe I d love todooe day; or a ew dream to check out o a map. More please! I sped a lot of time outdoors ad am proficiet i map readig etc so do ot eed them, but I apprecia them for their exisce ad that they d to mark paths of historical irest or o. These are of thigs I would't otherwise have bee aware of, ad have led to further study ad readig o a persoal level. I feel therefore - despi ot eedig the sigs for avigatio - that they add to my experiece i the outdoors. I ever fid them obtrusive. I thik however that a move to sigposts all core paths, as set out by ScotGov, may lead to a backlash. I do't thik that's what the outdoor commuity wishes. I thik sig postig is very importat especially where there is a historical irest i the rou. The Scotways sigs are some of the clearest, easiest to follow sigage i Scotlad ad should be kept wherever possible. I thik that ScotWays sigs have authority - you kow this is a right of way because oe of your sigs says so. Some of the older sigs have a heritage value too ad are part of the historic ladscape. With so much pressure o the ladscape from developmet, it is vital that people use ad cherish rights of way but also uderstad why they are importat too. Please keep up this importat ad excellet work. I welcome ScotWays sigig of paths. It raises the profile of ScotWays to have their ame o sigs. I would have preferred to respod with "Not Sure" to several of the above questios. While I agree with developmet of a cosistat style, I would see that to the phasig out of good sigs over several decades. Sometimes a ice old sig appears ad is placed i a appropria place, afr refurbishmet, ad that might be right. (As the sig illustrad o page 12 of the Aual Report.) i would suggest with regard to the sigs that where existig sigs are beyod reasoable repair ad replacemet is cosidered to be best, ad if matchig brad stadard sigs are deemed to be most appropria,a ew stadardised sig desig could be istalled. i do't see why perfectly good older sigs were replaced just to achieve this uiformity. whilst this might seem cotrary to my earlier respose where I suggest that certai types of sig may be out of place or iappropria i certai locatios...a sympathetic ad appropria yet log lastig ad low maiace desig might be the way to go meaig it could be used i all situatios I would support Scotways sigig ROW with distictive braded sigs workig i partership with the local access authority to esure best use of limid resources, especially where a ROW is also desigad as a core path. With regard to the style of sigs, I do prefer old cast iro sigs with raised letrig. The old sigs are a feature i themselves ad cotribu to the walkers experiece. At the ed of the day a siged ROW is betr tha o sig. 14 of 21
I'm led to thik of 30 years ago whe I first ecoured fie-grai Swiss moutai sigpostig. As a Scot used to usig my avigatio skills i ay weather, I felt tread like a fk child. It simply irritad me. O the other had, o other walks aroud the same time, such as i the moutais of orther Italy or the spaish Extrema Dura, I got rattled at the comple *lack* of sigs ad poor map reliability. I the meatime I've come to respect the Swiss sigpostig, which has established a eviable reputatio i may other coutries. It's accura, reliable ad i it's ow way as icoic a brad as the Swiss railways. It draws may more people out walkig tha would otherwise be the case, is tightly igrad with their olie ad offlie walkig maps, gives you access to places you might otherwise ever dream of visitig, ad feeds ito the Swiss Alpie Club's hut sysm (which I have ever used, preferrig to use a t). Italy has adopd the sysm (if ot at qui the sturdy Swiss quality), the Spaish a bit tardier due to more distribud/local compecies ad a lack of stadardisatio. https://map.schweizmobil.ch/?lag=e https://map.geo.admi.ch/ Above all, these sigs allow people to focus o the walkig. You seldom have to walk more tha a kilomer without cofirmatio that you are o the right path. If I thik back to the may hours spet porig over soggy maps i drivig wid ad rai, I have to say I'm clear about my prefereces. Importat especially to sigpost paths lisd i "Scottish Hill Tracks." I a ideal world oe agecy would maage all sigpostig. I ve had serious problems with with oe rou which four agecies were partly or wholy resposible for sigage ad afr two years (whilst may people got lost i the hills) I eded up sigpostig the 12 mile rou myself (sigs supplied by Sustras) from Beattock to Ae forest. I heavily farmed/populad lowlad coutry with a profusio of trails, fields etc there is a case for sigposts at key juctios ad etry poits to trails from roads. However i remo hill coutry I do ot support the presece of sigposts ad wish you would stop puttig them i! I thik sigs i these areas are: 1. Redudat. To be travellig there i the first place walkers eed to be able to aviga for themselves. 2. Detract from the sese of self reliace which is iheret to Scottish hillwalkig, without actually addig useful iformatio (see 1). 3. Itroduce ma made clutr - street furiture, i effect, to uspoilt locatios i which it is visually iappropria. 4. Icomple sigage: what's the good of llig people 'koydart is 10 miles thaddaway' if the rest of the trail is usiged? Actually, is't that worse from a safety/public iformatio tha havig o sig at all? (For the record, I would be strogly opposed to complely waymarked rous for reasos already alluded to!) 5. Do't sigposts rather uder-sell or subvert our access rights? We ca walk aywhere i the hills - we do't eed prescriptive sigs that imply that oly certai rous are i some way correct or official. I do't id ay of that to soud egative or uhelpful, but it seems I feel more strogly about sigposts i remo areas tha I'd realised. I would cotiue to be supportive if isad your efforts were cocetrad i lowlad agricultural settigs! 15 of 21
I my mid, Scotways sigage has always bee associad with rights of way ad drove roads, similar to how Sustras sigs are associad with the Natioal Cycle Network. If scotways were to begi to sig other types of rou, this would brig cofusig ad dubiety to users. Similarly, the house style of gree with whi letrs is recogised by those i the kow as a scotway sig. If this was to chage, this would agai raise doubt ad dubiety for users. The makeup of the sig (metal/wood etc) is largely irrelevat provided the colours ad style remai. We have foud this with NCN sigs. They may come i may styles, but the colourig of blue with a small red box remais ad this is uiversally recogised. For most walkers, the colours ad style will be what they recogise, ot the idividual make up of the sig. To my mid, the gree ad whi colourig is the strog brad. Differet locatios will require differt types of sig ad this is expecd, but cotiuity of colour ad appearace is essetial. I referece to the last couple of questios, I do ot thik that the lack of cotiuity i your sigs reflects badly. If aythig, I fid it a essetial part of the etworks that I ejoy usig - your sigage is a lik to the heritage of the paths ad a key part of what makes these paths special. Part of the joy of usig paths is fidig repaired Scotways sigs, seeig the marials used ad feelig part of a log heritage of coutryside access. As far as is practicably possible, please do ot chage this. I remo areas your sigs are qui useless. Why put them up? I the scale of thigs a mix of sig types probably does't matr - but I have to say the whi o gree raised metal is a desig classic i my opiio. It's welcomig, homely ad - esp. for me i wilder areas - whe I come across oe, a sure sig (o pu ided) that I'm somewhere I wat to be - i.e. away from it all. (Livig i Sheffield, I am also a fa of the Peak & Norther Footpath Soc sigs, also whi o gree raised letrs ad a v good desig). I'd also like to say 'thakyou' for your work. It may be useful to have a overall "look" which is available i a small selectio of marials to fit i with local ladscape. I feel strogly that oe orgaisatio, such as yourselves, should coordia this as people may miss out i followig irestig rous if there is ot oe orgaisatio resposible. Havig a small selectio of recogisable sigage meas people feel safe they are usig a recogised rou without "litrig" the coutryside with sigs which is what ds to happe whe everyoe does their ow thig. it eeds to be accura Just to say 'thaks' for startig the campaigs that led to the SOAC. Keep them biligual! Especially the ew oes!! Keep up the good work! Keep up the good work! No. Keep up good work. O may a occasio I have foud these sigs to be god sed o dreich day for a wee bit of reassurace. I ca aviga properly but have always used your sigs as a aid to avigatio 10\10 please do't chage you have a wiig formula Oly sigpost busy rous. Sigs ca be dagerous ad misleadig o less used rous as it ecourages people who ca't aviga to get lost. Other coutries have a traditio of sigig pathways etc. Maybe lookig to see what works for them ad adaptig these ideas to develop a uique, effective ad distict ScotWays desig policy ad livery. people may say that a lack of cotiuity i our style of sigage reflects badly o ScotWays. Ad if they do ll them to @*#k off ad mid their ow busiess Please make ay sigage as uclutred as possible. 16 of 21
Please remember that access legislatio aside, sigs are a great reassurace to walkers that they are o the right path ad ulikely to aoy ayoe, so they positively ecourage folk to explore ad apprecia this amazig coutry. I cotiue to believe your work is of huge value to our commuity. Red ad whi pait does for the rest of Europe. Just eed clue as to best poit to leave the road ad miss someoe's house Repair old sigs or use ew oes as makes best ecoomic sese. retaiig the old style post is valuable as it further ehaces the historic ature of Scottish R.O.W.We regularly see theold sigs ad it is always a pleasure to kow that these have bee i situ for a log time ad we feel comfortable that the ROW has ot bee 2moved2 as is of the way with ROW.I is very aoyig that rous cotiue to be moved/ re-aliged ad guide book omits older rous purely based o the fact that someoe thiks it is too wet or too difficult ROW should ever be chaged ad the associad sigs should be retaied Rights of way sigs for stragic paths are welcome: as a lad maager, walker ad biker, I like the sigs; they are sesitively ad stragically locad, they accord with what is o the OS map providig directioal iformatio ad cofidece to users; more sigificatly they are a sigificat part of the cultural heritage. New sigs i ew locatios should be uecessary. Re routig: sesible proposals for reroutig of rights of way should be cotiue to be suppord. Shared Use: may walkers fid it difficult to come to rms with sharig the use of paths with bikers, especially o arrow paths i quiet locatios; it would be irestig to kow if you have ay advice for the provisio for shared use. Sig desig; the gradual developmet of the sigs is part of the cultural history, it would detract from that to re-brad ad moderise. RoW sigage is as relevat as ever, but with the various styles of sigs such as the WHW style blazed stake, the Fife Coastal path ad Core Path style Discs o stakes it's very icosist how o- TSRGD rou sigs are marked out, it may be that the figer posts are o loger suitable for may locatios ad a stake ad disc sysm is more appropria at juctios ad aother way of idicatig the siged destiatio is required. Where the Discs o Stake sysm falls over with Core paths i Fife, is although the arrows poit you somewhere, you ever kow where they are goig uless you study the Core path etwork maps, I've oly just figured out where oe goes at a fork i a field o St Fort Farm (dow to the Liks Wood road ext to the Sad Pit, a seemigly useless Core Path!) Scotways should sig oly rights of way ad keep the colour scheme ad idetity. It does ot have to be absoluly uiform i shape ad desig. Scotways sigage is a igral part of the great outdoors ad sigs aid the preservatio of our log established rights of way. The orgaisatio does excellet work o this frot. ScotWays sigage is very helpful & must be cotiued. Scoyways sigs are icoic ad easily recogised. Also scotways have a good sese of which rous are importat ad which rous to target for sigig. I'm kee to see you cotiue the good work. See commets above re. ROW - I thought Scotways had broadeed its mid ad remit to iclude all access (if ot the time to withdraw membership...). May of the questios ask yes or o without ay scope for "yes but...". Great if Scotways develops a fuctioal, cost effective, sustaiable uique sig desig for ew sigs, but that should't be at the cost or loss of some of the old sigs, particularly the old cast iro sigs which are igral to the history of a rou. My oly argumet agaist this would be where sigs icorrectly ow refer to footpath, which cotradicts with wider access rights uder the Lad Reform Act, with wider implicatios i that path users ad some ladowers use this to argue that certai paths are legally restricd to pedestria oly. If Scotways goes away from its ow distictive gree ad whi bradig, what are the implicatios for the Heritage Paths sigs - are they all goig to be replaced as well? Seeig a Scotways sig is always reassurig, log may they cotiue. 17 of 21
Seeig your sigs at the begiig of a walk always feels like a proper start to a day out. Sigage will help folk fid their way i the coutry ad therefore assist the rural ecoomy simpler sigs away from public roads; questio resposes are too polarised Some local authorities have bee pro active i sig postig their desigad core paths i some istaces icludig the destiatio ad the core path umber as it appears o the core path pla. This is to be commeded ad suppord, recogisig the fiacial costraits that authorities work uder. It is recogised that historically Scotways have procd rights of way ad that these may ot always be the same as core paths. I strogly feel that Scotways sigage should therefore look distict from local authority sigage wherever feasible. SW should take a lead o cosideratios for sigage. Comple uiformity is a bad idea for the sort of rous that SW ds to sig RoWs d to be local ad shorr tha the log distace rous of Sustras or the ew fashio for 'Ways' Such thigs will ievitably attract fewer users tha 'local' oes - though obviously thigs like Sustras rous are, i may cases, a collectio of local rous. SW should't uderestima the fact that may people have surprisigly little idea of what is earby - uless they ca/have drive there. Work with LAs to highlight walkig rous to 'destiatios' (eve 'obvious' thigs like shoppig cetres ad schools). Also viewpoits. SW has siged the Cockmylae rou but ot (for istace) the gree space south of Fox Sprig Cres which has a fabulous view of the castle. Work with SG, P4A etc. to work out a stragy (ad fudig) for Core Path etworks Ecourage 'explore locally' rather tha the idea (which some people cosider) that 'walkig is a serious activity for people who have serious boots ad outdoor gear'. Thak you for doig it. thakyou for sigpostig paths The key thig is to esure that, oce erecd, sigposts are maitaied sufficietly for them to do their job. (That is, re-erect falle sigs; refurbish or replace illegible oes.) The oly place where your sigs are useful is whe iside esta grouds where the ladower is resistat to freedom of access. All else good avigatio reders them uecessary 18 of 21
The ous should really be o local authorities to erect & maitai sigposts, but acceptig that that's ulikely to happe, there is a cotiuig role for ScotWays i sigpostig sigificat rous. The moder sheet metal sigs are o doubt relatively low-cost, durable ad easy to produce, erect or replace, but are more appropria for urba & lowlad settigs tha wild coutry, where the old cast metal sigs somehow seem less icogruous. However, these are presumably very expesive. Most Eglish Natioal Parks seem to have adopd roud woode sigs, which bled ito the ladscape but are expesive ad have limid lifespa. It is possible to buy boardwalks ad other coutryside furiture made from pigmed wood-effect recycled plastic, which seems to offer superior performace to the woode equivalets. Has ayoe ivestigad usig similar marial for sigs, which could be roud or moulded (or potially eve 3-D prid) ad possibly eve icorpora igral pigmets for letrig? I do't thik it matrs that ScotWays sigs have evolved dow the years - although they are a mixture of styles, this is acceptable for a body with a log heritage, ad it would be a great shame to lose the historic sigs. I ay case, despi variatios i detail, they share the cosist ad well-established SRWS 'look' which is easy to read, resistat to fadig, ad further exds to ScotWays publicatios ad eve the websi. Whether by accidet or desig, ScotWays has developed a well-recogized house style. The service provided is far more importat tha image issues. Do't get caught up i that. The sigs ad letrig are of the first way folk kow that we exist. First impressios cout.. We have a rich heritage of sigs. Some ca eve be see from a road ad crea irest. Maitai their timeless, classic style. 'Old style sig baggig' could the last fad! I'd love to kow where they are. But short woode posts with the roud logo ad arrows may be less itrusive whe out o the hills. Directio arrows with km.please. Let's get more up. The sigs are brilliat (although there is oe i fisherfields which poits the wrog way) whe you pass oe of your sigs i the car it ispires future waderigs. Sigs are particularly importat where the OS have't icluded the path o the map. I would like to see all the old drovers rous sigposd. The sigs are great! Especially the old oes. The sigs are the right colour but far too big for the sigage o them. The old cast iro oes look great but expesive. A sig 100mm high for oe lie is ideal, but you also have multiples sigs ad ames o them poitig i the same directio. There really is a more sesible way of havig multiple directios o oe sig where possible. I work i graphic desig ad there s lots of optios out there. Try to egage local colleges ruig graphic desig ad you could give the studets a desig brief ad let them come up with ideas. You will be amazed what they come up with. Try Duca of Jordastoe College of Art & Desig. Fially do t be put off by luddis who believe Scotlad is a puritaical wilderess. It is t ad these sigs are i sesible locatios. The historical ROW eed preserved ad this is a fatastic way of maitaiig them. The sigs should all be removed. They spoil the ladscape (they are of locad i remo areas), they serve o purpose, ad i some cases lead people ito remo, potial dagerous moutai coutry, givig them a false sese of security. Isad of usig the moey to berect ad maitai the sigs, it ca be used for betr purpose. The great asset of Scotlad is its atural beauty, let's ot rui that with tatty sigage. What is the poit of the sigs with the itroductio of the Lad Reform (Scotlad) Act 2003? There is a icosiscy at preset with wordig o sigs; e.g path, public path; public footpath. Over time these should all become 'paths' These sigs are essetial for highlightig rous ad keepig me o track. I do't mid the style of a sig, it just eeds to be readable ad maitaied i the most cost effective way. They are the sigs to adveture! Keep up the good work Thik more sigs eeded to guide walkers. Just retured from walkig i Austria which has excellet sigpostig for walkers! 19 of 21
Uder ope access regulatios rights of ways have lost their importace. I suggest you cocetra o rous that have a historic importace ad allow the coucils to put sigposts o other popular rous, especially if they are core paths. We have too may sigs ad may are ow i poor repair with associad problems of maiace (especially those with stick o letrig) ad adverse impact o our image. But they are a useful form of advertisemet. Geerally we should cocetra o SHT rous, which are ot ormally sigposd by access authorities, ad o heritage paths which should cotiue to have a differetiad sig. The cast metal sigs were/are distictive ad would be a good mpla for the future We eed them or we lose our rights of way! We eed to push for all core paths to be sigposd, ad the for chage i legislatio which will obliga ladowers to sigpost ay tracks/paths which lik with each other. i.e. move towards Eglish-style footpath etwork What you do is fatastic. Lettig people kow where footpaths are. Especially if you are o holiday or ew to a area. Keep up the good work! Where possible ad affordable, sigs i eed of repair should mirror the earlier cast iro sigs which are a distictive feature of the Scottish ladscape - ad which of spur irest, discussio etc i ad about the orgaisatio amogst casual walkers ad visitors. All sigs should bear the origial ame of the Society's origial ame rather tha the dreadful 'Scotways' which is blad, coveys little of the history ad importace of the orgaisatio, ad was a bradig mistake. While I like the idea of repairig ad therefore mixig marials, I thik it's a good pla to choose oe marial ad stick to it for cotiuity. Whilst I do ot expect rous to be fully waymarked, I like the feelig of liks with past access supporrs whe I see a Scotways sig from log ago. Why do people isist o puttig up uecessary sigs? Lear to aviga ad sigs are uecessary. Remove this visual pollutio. Work i partership with local authorities... lead the way for uiformity throughout scotlad Would favour ew desig mirrorig early cast metal so as to capitalise o as much of the existig brad as possible (thereby avoidig the time, eergy ad resources it takes for a orgaisatio to reivet its brad). Also, would oly use ew desig whe replacig wor out existig or etirely ew sigs. Yes or o aswers are ot always helpful - for istace, the 2d to last questio, for me, would deped o what is more ecoomical friedly ad cost effective. Certaily, a uique sig will stad out, for example, the brow forestry commissio sigs are geerally well placed ad atioally recogised. Yes, keep up the good work. It's always reassurig to see Scotways sigs at the begiig of rous. Yes! Please get the distace AND time (est) i cosist uits. Km or miles ad Hrs mis. With icreasig os of overseas visitors is very helpful to tourists ad visitors ot familiar with the UK idiosycratic approach to sigage. Also cosider a distictive type of paid rou mark like the GR covetios all over Europe. Scotways with its experiece should take a lead i helpig to sort out the icosiscies i sigage i rural ad urba areas. Yes. With Core Paths, ad wider access rights, Rights of Way are somewhat redudat except i the cultural sese. So, I would prioritise those with a distict cultural message: e.g. drove roads, or past access struggles. Also, I would oly sig start ad ed of rou: usually road ed, as it ca be dagerously misleadig, ad iappropria, havig poirs i otherwise wild coutry. You're sigs are't required ad just clutr up ad pollu the coutry side. If people ca't buy a map ad do't possess the kowledge to use oe the they should't veture oto the hills. You should take all preset sigs dow ad cocetra o your websi ad iformatio. 20 of 21
Your chagig ame ad style of sigage is cofusig. Retur to Scottish Rights of Way Society ad keep for at least oe hudred years. To esure this your costitutio should be ameded to say every time you chage your ame or style of sigage every existig sig must be modified to reflect the chages withi oe year. Your sigs are especially importat o "cosd" public rous Your sigs are largely irrelevat ad poit i the vague directio of somewhere. If you ca aviga you do't eed them ad if you ca't aviga they are of o use. Please stop puttig them up. 21 of 21