Interview of John Kamb, Wilma Crogstad Kamb, and John Kamb, Jr. March 15, 2014 Fir-Conway Lutheran Church Conway, Washington

Transcription

1 Nordic American Voices Nordic Heritage Museum Interview of John Kamb, Wilma Crogstad Kamb, and John Kamb, Jr. March 15, 2014 Fir-Conway Lutheran Church Conway, Washington Interviewers: Gordon Strand Gordon Strand [0:10] Today is March 15, We are at the Fir-Conway Lutheran Church in Conway, Washington. We ll be interviewing John G. Kamb. John, welcome, and thank you for agreeing to participate in this project. Could you start out by identifying yourself? Tell us where you were born, when you were born, and then just give us some family history about the immigrants in your family and all of that. John Kamb: [0:40] Well, my birthday is July 20, 1929, and I was born in the Mount Vernon General Hosptial in Mount Vernon, Washington. My father s name was actually it was Oscar Floyd Kamb, but he always went by the name of Floyd. He said, Don t call me Oscar. It makes me wild. [Laughter] My mother was Harriett Kamb. She also She and my dad were both born in Mount Vernon also. My father was born in April 15, My mother was born March 14, 1904, I believe. As far as my grandfather was concerned, he was John William Kamb. He came from Sweden Or Finland. Wilma Crogstad Kamb: [1:47] [Inaudible 1:47] John: [1:48] Can I pause a minute? [TAPE BREAK 1:49] John Kamb Jr: [1:50] He came in about 1888, but I think he went to Michigan first. Nordic American Voices Page 1 of 39

2 John: [1:57] Okay. Wilma: [1:59] [TAPE BREAK 2:00] Gordon: [2:02] Today is March 15, We are at the Fir-Conway Lutheran Church in Conway, Washington. We are going to be interviewing John Kamb for the Nordic American Voices oral history project of the Nordic Heritage Museum. So John, could you start out by identifying yourself by name, date of birth, where you were born, and then give us some of your family history, particularly the immigrant history from the Nordic countries. John: [2:30] All right. Well, I was born on July 20, 1929 in the General Hospital in Mount Vernon, Washington. My mother was Harriett Smith Kamb, and my father was Oscar Floyd Kamb. He didn t go by the name of Oscar, however. He went only by Floyd, because he thought Oscar made him wild. [Laughter] [2:56] Dad was born April 15, 1902 in Mount Vernon. My mother was born March 14, 1904, also in Mount Vernon. And my grandfather was John William Kamb, and he came from Finland in the late 1880s, I believe. My recollection, and my son knows it better than I do, and my wife, but he came to Michigan first, and then eventually out to Washington. Worked in Wilma: [3:38] Aberdeen. John: [3:39] In the area in western Washington. Eventually got a farm west of Mount Vernon in the Padilla area. My grandfather married Sadie Rutter in Wilma: [4:02] John Jr: [4:03] No, Wilma: [4:04] Right. Nordic American Voices Page 2 of 39

3 John: [4:06] And they had two children: my father, of course, and then my aunt Leona, who was born three years after my father. But my grandmother Sadie, she passed away about She had Wilma: [4:24] Tuberculosis. TB. John: [4:29] Well, I What was it? John Jr: [4:32] Tuberculosis: John: [4:33] Tuberculosis. And so my grandfather raised both my dad and my aunt himself. He built a home in west Mount Vernon on McClain road- about a mile and a half west of Mount Vernon. And the farm eventually totaled approximately one hundred and eighty acres. He farmed on the farm and also milked a lot of cattle. So, it was a dairy farm and also a crop farming area. [5:11] Other than that, on my mother s side, my mother s father- he was Irish and English. He came to the Skagit Valley- his name was Thomas Smith- about in the late 1880s also. He wasn t Scandinavian at all. He was a pioneer attorney here in Skagit Valley. But other than that I don t know. What else would you like to know? Gordon: [5:45] Going back to your grandfather, what do you know about the reasons why he immigrated, or why he went to Michigan first? John: [5:53] Well Gordon: [5:55] Did you know him, by the way? Or did you John: [5:57] I knew my grandfather. I actually worked with him a while. He died in I believe Prior to that time he was retired, and he turned the farm over to my father. But he always was around. In the summer months when we were haying and doing crop farming and all that, I worked with him oftentimes on the machinery. We never talked a lot because I just was too young at the time, I suppose to have many conversations with him. Nordic American Voices Page 3 of 39

4 [6:42] My wife Wilma, actually, when I was in the army, got to know him a lot better than I knew him. She talked with him a lot and got a lot of his family history. He came from Finland. Well, I think he was nineteen or twenty when he left there. The reason he left, I don t really know other than John Jr: [7:06] He was a second son, and Gordon: [7:09] Oh, yeah. John Jr: [7:09] And land went to the first son. John: [7:11] Okay. Maybe that was the reason. He was a second son, and all the land went to the first son. So when he came over here, he never returned for fifty years. Gordon: [7:24] Oh, is that right? John: [7:25] But fifty years after, about fifty years after he left Finland, he and my aunt Leona went back to Finland to visit. Gordon: [7:35] Was that before the war, or after? John: [7:47] That was before the war. But my recollection is that my aunt told me that he went out and sat on the fence, and his brother was way down in the far corner, driving a machine. Finally he came around, and the first thing my granddad said to him- he hadn t seen him in fifty years. He said,, My God, man, you ve gotten old. [Laughter] But other than that Gordon: [8:10] How would you describe him in his interactions with you? I mean John: [8:14] Well, you know, he lived to be ninety-one. So when I knew him, and really talked to him, he was probably in his late eighties and early nineties. When Wilma and I got married, he came to the wedding over in Spokane. We were married in 1953 in Spokane, Washington. He traveled Nordic American Voices Page 4 of 39

5 across the mountains with my folks, of course, to go to the wedding. [8:43] I don t remember talking to him a lot, or anything like that. I remember if I needed any money, once in a while he d reach into his pocket. He had a purse that cinched up, you know. And he d reach in and maybe give me a dollar bill. Actually, my sisters complained that he always gave me five and they only got one. [Laughter] So other than that Gordon: [9:12] So, but he started the acquisition of the farm? John: [9:15] Oh, yeah, he definitely Gordon: [9:17] Is that still in the family? John: [9:18] No, it s not in the family. My dad farmed the farm until about nineteen fifty Wilma: [9:25] Nine. John: [9:26] And I didn t want to be a farmer. I told him one time milking cows, there had to be an easier way. So I went on to college. So Dad, when he retired, he sold part of the farm to a family by the name of Dykstra. Later on, after he passed away, the balance of the farm- they also acquired it. So we don t have that farm at all in the family anymore. John Jr: [10:00] The road is still there. John: [10:01] Oh, yeah. There s a road between my grandfather s farm Oh, his brother also came about ten years after he did. His name was Oscar Kamb. He bought a farm just west of our farm. And eventually, they put a road through. It goes north and south between the two farms. It s called the Kamb Road today. [10:34] In fact, my daughter, when she was in New York City, going to school, one of her friends came to her and said, Mary, you re really famous. She said, Why do you say that? Well, they were having the tulip festival here in Mount Vernon, and they saw the name of the Kamb Road. Nordic American Voices Page 5 of 39

6 That was the way you had to get to go [Laughter] Anything else I could tell you? Gordon: [10:58] What was it Describe the farm. What did they You said it was dairy, but it was also John: [11:04] When I was a boy, we had approximately forty head of Holstein cattle. That was a good-sized farm at that time. That was prior to about Between the forties and fifties. We had In the summers we raised oats; we raised cabbage; we raised beets. We had a lot of peas. And then of course, we had the forty head of cattle that we milked all the time. [11:40] My granddad acquired the farm. I m not sure if he acquired forty acres originally and then eventually purchased other parcels adjacent to it, so eventually it got to be one hundred and eighty acres. Part of it he had to clear, because it still had timber on it. It took a while to clear. He built the house that we lived in in about 1900 I believe, thereabouts. Gordon: [12:17] Oh, okay. Is the house still standing? John: [12:19] The house still stands. Yeah. I haven t been in it for a long time. I always thought it was a lot bigger that it really is. [Laughter] Gordon: [12:27] Yeah. We usually think that. Yeah. So, were there any traditions from the old country that you grew up with that you recall? John: [12:37] No traditions in my house, but one of the things my grandfather loved to do was go to a restaurant in the La Conner area. It was called Hope Island, and they had buffet every Sunday. Wilma: [12:52] Smorgasbord. John: [12:53] A buffet they particularly had a lot of Scandinavian dishes. He loved to go there, and we d go out there probably on a regular basis- a couple times a month for many several years, actually. Nordic American Voices Page 6 of 39

7 Gordon: [13:08] Oh. Did he speak English well? John: [13:11] He spoke English very well. Yeah. I never heard him speak any language other than English. Gordon: [13:17] Uh huh. John: [13:18] Yeah. Gordon: [13:19] And how did he learn it? Did he ever talk about that? John: [13:21] To the best of my knowledge, he never told me how he learned it. I think when he got here, he felt he was in America, and he wanted to speak English, so he learned how to do that. Gordon: [13:33] You said he went fifty years before he went back? John: [13:36] Fifty years before he went back, yes. Gordon: [13:38] Was there communication- connection by mail or anything between the family? Wilma: [13:43] Yes. Gordon: [13:45] In Finland. Do you know where in Finland, by the way? John Jr: [13:49] Intermark. Gordon: [13:50] Huh? John Jr: [13:51] Intermark. Gordon: [13:52] Oh, okay. Nordic American Voices Page 7 of 39

8 John: [13:52] Intermark, Finland. Yeah. We ve been back. My wife and I went back to Finland and visited the family home at that time. I think just to break here for a second. [TAPE BREAK 14:05] Wilma: [14:06] Show them the picture. John: [14:07] Yeah. Oh, this is a kind of a description of the Kamb family. You might take a look at that. I don t know. Gordon: [14:22] Hold it up straighter. Back okay. There you go. Okay. Wilma: [14:33] That s the farm. John: [14:35] That s the farm he came from. John Jr: [14:39] The ownership history of it. Gordon: [14:42] In Finland. Okay. Wilma: [14:45] They were colonized. Gordon: [14:48] All right, you can put that down now. Probably take another picture Wilma: [14:50] [Inaudible 14:50] John: [14:51] Yeah. The farm in Finland John Jr: [14:58] Down to the bottom, this would be your great-grandfather. This would be John W s brother. John: [15:06] Yeah. But they acquired it originally in 1724, it looks like, and it passed from the Nordic American Voices Page 8 of 39

9 family 1745, 1808, 1862, My granddad, though, was a Russian citizen, I believe. Gordon: [15:25] I was going to say, at that time, he was part of Russia. John: [15:28] When he came to America, he had to give up that Russian citizenship. I don t think he cared He didn t care that much about doing it. I mean, he wanted to be American, you know. He didn t necessarily want to be Russian. Gordon: [15:43] Well, oftentimes, Finns would leave because they were being drafted into the Russian army. John: [15:50] I don t know if that happened or not. I don t really know. Gordon: [15:55] Yeah. John: [15:55] In fact, my dad didn t really know much about that. At least, he never talked to me as long as I can remember. A funny thing that did happen is after my father died, we got a death certificate, and it showed that he was a second child. My mother told me at the time, Dad never realized that. But apparently my granddad married a divorced lady in 1900, and she had a child prior to that by a former marriage, which apparently died, and nobody ever was aware of it until my father passed away, and it showed on the death certificate. Gordon: [16:54] Oh. Huh. John: [16:55] Yeah. Gordon: [16:56] When you went to Finland yourself, what year was that? Wilma: [17:01] About fifteen years ago. John: [17:03] Gosh 1990, thereabouts? Nordic American Voices Page 9 of 39

10 Wilma: [17:07] About. Gordon: [17:11] What did you learn from the family there? John: [17:14] They showed us around the family home. Showed us the property. It wasn t that large, but the thing I was amazed about was how well kept it was. It was just immaculate. The people that had charge of it- Kjell was his name. And he showed us the machinery they had. Actually it might have been four or five years old, and it looked like it was brand new. There wasn t a speck of dust on any of it. I was amazed at how well kept those machines were- much more so than I remember our machinery. Gordon: [17:57] And so it stayed in the family for hundreds of years. John: [17:59] Yeah, it s still in the family. Right. Gordon: [18:01] Yeah. And they re actively working as a farm, then? John: [18:04] Well, I don t think they make a full living at it, but they do actually work it, and he works another job in the town. Yeah. Gordon: [18:15] Uh huh. [TAPE BREAK 18:18] Gordon: [18:19] We ve now been joined by Wilma Crogstad Kamb to add a little more detail to the trip to Finland. Could you describe what we were talking about, and what you learned about John s family when you were there? Wilma: [18:35] Yes. John and I have been married sixty-one years. [Laughter] Gordon: [18:40] Congratulations. Nordic American Voices Page 10 of 39

11 Wilma: [18:41] Grandpa was a great friend of mine. We used to play cards sometimes at noon. I worked at the hospital, and I would go over at noon, and we would play gin. He was quite a gin rummy player. And he liked his little I d bring him a little can of Prince Albert for his pipe. He always had a corncob pipe. So anyway, we used to visit. But anyhow Gordon: [19:05] What did he tell you about his past? Anything? Wilma: [19:08] He told me about his wife, and he said she had beautiful red hair and brown eyes. And all of his children were redheads, and all of his grandchildren were redheads. So when Mary Louise was born, she was the first great-grandchild that he had seen, although he had one that was born in Virginia, but she hadn t come home yet. She was six months older. [19:36] So when Mary Louise was born, she was born at the Raleigh Hospital in Mount Vernon, and he walked up three flights of stairs and took a peek at her, and he said, She hasn t got red hair! And he turned around and went back down. But the day she was baptized, he said, Well, she has my blue eyes. And everybody else in the family was practically blue-eyed, so anyhow. But he claimed the blue eyes. But anyhow, Grandpa Kamb s family- Kjell is the head of the waterworks at Irgard. John Jr: [20:16] Intermark. Wilma: [20:17] Intermark. I m sorry. Anyhow, they do It s the tomato-raising capitol of Europe in the area and they have the hydroponic farming. We went into the barns, the sheds- the glass houses. Everything is done by computer. We were just amazed. The tomato plants were huge. They were like trees. They went way up to the ceiling, which was probably about twenty feet. And they picked them every third day, and they climbed ladders. [20:57] Everything the nutrients and the watering and everything was on a computer, and each plant was watered automatically. And they had bees inside to pollinate. It was just amazing. And we were just thunderstruck, because we thought we were going to step back into the last century, and they were so far ahead of us, we couldn t believe it, because we had not experienced that. Nordic American Voices Page 11 of 39

12 [21:23] Then one thing about Kjell s mother- her name was Vinni, and she was a cousin of John s father. Anyway, she was a great crocheter, and she had crocheted by hand all the curtains in her place. She had an apartment upstairs in their house. They had one daughter, Cecilia, who is now going to school in Helsinki. When we went over to the other farm, where the Wardeens were, there were four children in the family, and the wife was the Kamb. [22:06] And anyhow, they had three boys and a girl, and the oldest boy is now a doctor at the University of Helsinki, and he specializes in diabetes. That s a big disease in Finland. And then the daughter is a nurse, and she has two little girls now. And the two other boys are still in college. But those kids could speak languages. They spoke English perfectly. They could speak Russian, and Finnish, and German. Of course, at home they spoke Swedish. Then they could understand Norwegian, and French, and all the European languages. They were so well versed in languages, and so smart. We were just amazed. Gordon: [22:51] They almost have to be, to survive. Wilma: [22:52] Yes. But we went to the church, which was I can t remember the town. I didn t look it up. I should have. But anyway, we went to the church. The church was built in the 1400s, and they added so it was in the form of a cross. And in the middle there was an altar rail, and there was this baptismal font that was solid gold. And it was just absolutely unbelievable. At one end of one of the arms of the cross, there was this huge organ. In the middle, where the branches came together of the church, there was this big ship, suspended. That was for all the people who had died at sea. [23:47] Then we went out into the cemetery, and all the gravestones were in this black granite, and all the families have the same. And it s just like a park. All of them have sort of window boxes in front of the graves, and all planted with flowers. Of course, we were there in the summertime. It was just like a park. And then there was a big boulder over to one side. On it was carved in memory of all the Swedish-Finn people who had gone there to America. In memory to those people who had died in America. [24:32] Around the church were these little boxy houses, and there must have been about forty of Nordic American Voices Page 12 of 39

13 them around the church. And we were curious, what in the world was that? In the wintertime, it gets so cold, that they used to put their horses into these little barns while they went to church, because the horses couldn t stand the cold, either. So every family had their own little barn by the church. Gordon: [25:04] Did any of them talk about the war, and how that had affected them at all? Wilma: [25:09] Well, there were quite adamant that they didn t want to be judged by the fact that the Germans had helped them fight the [Russians]. They didn t like that at all. They said they were not against America, or anything, but it was a matter of survival, that the Germans had come to their aid, and they had been able to fight the Russians. Gordon: [25:36] We heard from other Finns who had families and farms, particularly, that there were so many refugees coming from the captured areas, and they had to give up parts of their land. Did they mention that at all? Wilma: [25:48] No, they didn t say anything about that. Evidently, they were under the Swedish flag. The family originally came from a little lake country north of Stockholm. They asked them to move to the Finnish coast. That was part of the kingdom of Sweden. Sweden was a very huge kingdom at that time, and they wanted them to settle on the coast, so that s why they went there. [26:22] And another thing, everybody in that area was part of the Kamb family. It got so that there were so many Kambs, it was confusing for the post office, that they made them change their names to their wives name. So in the family, instead of all being Kambs now, there s Linns, and Sankas, and several other branches of the family that are all part of the Kamb family. Gordon: [26:54] Interesting. Speaking of that, then, are there a lot of Kambs in the United States that you ve discovered? Wilma: [27:00] Well, we know a lot about Oscar s family. John Jr: [27:07] The brother. Nordic American Voices Page 13 of 39

14 Wilma: [27:09] Yeah, his brother. Because he had four sons, and all of them Gordon: [27:15] Populated. [Laughter] Wilma: [27:17] Yeah. Well, one of them was quite a well-known writer, and he went down to the San Francisco area, and he married, and he had a daughter and twin boys, and the twin sons, one of them became a scientist at CIT, and he married John Jr: [27:40] Linus Pauling s Wilma: [27:41] Yeah. Linus Pauling s daughter. Gordon: [27:43] Oh, for crying out loud. Wilma: [27:44] Yeah. So anyhow, he John: [27:46] I think he went to MIT, though, not CIT. Wilma: [27:49] No. CIT. John: [27:50] CIT? Wilma: [27:51] Yeah. California. Yeah. He was down there. The other twin the parents were divorced, and she married a man that was a specialist in grape-growing, and they had a big grape company. John Jr: [28:09] Vineyard. Wilma: [28:11] Yeah. He went by the name of his stepfather. I do know that. The daughter was quite a writer, and she was on the staff of Glamour magazine. And then the father married again, and he had a couple of children. He had a Japanese wife, and one of his daughters is Susan Kamb, and she works for Sports Illustrated. What was the boy s name that got into the Nordic American Voices Page 14 of 39

15 John: [28:43] Oh, I don t know. Wilma: [28:45] It s all on the Internet, anyway. [Laughter] Gordon: [28:48] Oh. Interesting. John Jr: [28:49] There are a lot of Kambs. Wilma: [28:50] Yeah. There are a lot of Kambs. Gordon: [28:52] A lot of Kambs there. But I mean there was probably John Jr: [28:54] In the U.S. there are. Gordon: [28:55] Some of your grandfather s era, too, then, from that Wilma: [28:58] Yeah. Gordon: [28:58] What are the origins of the Kamb name? Is it a region, a place? John: [29:02] I think it s a region, is where it came from. Wilma: [29:07] I know Mary Louise There was a man that taught at MIT. Mary Louise, our oldest daughter, is a doctor, and she went back to Harvard for her internship, and she called him up, but he wasn t interested in talking to her. Anyhow, she didn t find out any more about him, but she was sure She thought he was one of Barkley s kid s, but he wasn t. Gordon: [29:31] Oh. Talk about growing up in this area. You said you lived on the farm. John: [29:38] Right. Nordic American Voices Page 15 of 39

16 Gordon: [29:39] Where did you go to school? John: [29:41] Well, I started out of course at Mount Vernon High School, and Mount Vernon Grade School, but I went to the University of Washington for three years, and then I ended up going to Gonzaga Law School, where I got my law degree. Gordon: [29:54] Oh, okay. John: [29:55] In Before I graduated from law school, I went into the army. I was actually drafted. I got a letter from the president. [Laughter] And so I was in my senior year of law school, so I had to leave. I went into the service for two years and then came back, and graduated in After I passed the bar, I eventually came to Mount Vernon, and I ve been practicing law in Mount Vernon since Gordon: [30:28] Oh, for crying out loud. John: [30:29] Of course, I have two sons who are attorneys. John is one of them. My son Tom, and then I have a daughter, Rosemary, who is also an attorney. Wilma and I have nine children, or had nine children. Two of them are gone now. But all of them we raised, and they went to school in the local area. Gordon: [30:55] So, from this farming orientation, it s now gone into law. John: [31:01] So, my mother On my mother s side, her father was a pioneer lawyer in Skagit County. Gordon: [31:07] Oh, he was? The Smith side. John: [31:09] Smith, yeah. His name was Smith. He practiced law in Skagit County from about 1890 to And then in 1934 his son became a lawyer and joined the practice. He actually probably joined it earlier than that. And then eventually when I got out of law school, I joined him in the practice. So in a sense, I say our practice has been in existence since over a hundred years now. Nordic American Voices Page 16 of 39

17 Gordon: [31:41] Wow. Yeah. John: [31:42] Yeah. Gordon: [31:43] You know, it s interesting- I ve just been reading a book called The Boys in the Boat. I don t know if you re familiar with it, about the rowing team at the University of Washington that went to the Olympics. John: [31:51] Yes. Gordon: [31:52] But they talked about in the thirties, there was the most recorded rainfall ever. It hasn t been surpassed in one month. They talked about floods up here. Just curious- did your family the family farm, was it affected at all? Was it a problem? John: [32:11] Our farm on West Mount Vernon was not affected. Gordon: [32:14] Okay. John: [32:15] Although I remember as a boy one time that in order to get into Mount Vernon, we had to come down McClain Road to about a quarter of a miles outside of Mount Vernon, and then take a rowboat up to the bridge, and then eventually past. But Wilma s farm Wilma was raised on Fir Island here. Gordon: [32:36] Oh, okay. John: [32:37] And her farm- she and her sister now own the farm. John lives on it. And it was underwater in All of Fir Island. Wilma: [32:50] Eight feet of water. Gordon: [32:52] Eight feet. Oh, my gosh. Nordic American Voices Page 17 of 39

18 John: [32:54] Yeah. Wilma: [32:55] One of my first recollections, I was about three years old, and we came up for Christmas. My uncle and aunt met us with a lantern down on the road. The road was built up a little bit higher. And we walked up the dike and got into a boat, and rowed to the house. I was about three years old, and I can remember that. Gordon: [33:17] So what year would that have been? Wilma: [33:18] Gordon: [33:21] I bet that was the year They said there was like fourteen inches of rain, the highest ever recorded in this area. Not just here, but in Seattle, too, I guess. Interesting. Yeah. John: [33:33] Yeah. Gordon: [33:34] So, you went to the University of Washington. How has Mount Vernon and the Skagit area changed over your lifetime? How would you John: [33:43] Oh, well, it s changed a lot. When I was in high school and prior to going to college, I think the population was probably somewhere around five thousand for the Mount Vernon area. We had one road in downtown Mount Vernon. We d call it when we d go up and down the road, splitting the gut. [Laughter] [34:11] But that downtown area of Mount Vernon has really It isn t very populated right now. There s a lot of empty stores. Mount Vernon has more or less gone north, out to what they call College Way. There s a mall that s up towards Burlington. It s all north of Mount Vernon now. Downtown is very much less populated. And the population There s houses all over. [34:51] When I was a boy, going to school in Mount Vernon, I went to Lincoln Grade School. It had just been built. And Eleventh Street in Mount Vernon was basically the border. Everything beyond Nordic American Voices Page 18 of 39

19 Eleventh Street was farmland. Nowadays it s just all houses and buildings. Houses all over. I just can t imagine where they all come from. Gordon: [35:14] What is it like for the farmers now in this area? Do you see there s a lot of threats to their John: [35:22] Well, I don t really know. I don t have a lot of farmer clients any more. Gordon: [35:29] Oh, you don t? John: [35:30] And I don t keep in touch with them that much. I know the dairy industry There s been a lot There s only a few dairies left around. And the pea industry- there s no longer any peas here. Strawberries, I don t know that there s that many being grown any more. The farming seems to be cut back a lot. Wilma: [35:58] It s mostly potatoes and blueberries. John: [36:00] Yeah. Wilma: [36:01] Yeah. Gordon: [36:03] And tulips? [Laughter] Wilma: [36:04] Oh John: [36:05] A lot of tulips, yeah. [Laughter] Wilma: [36:07] But even so, Fabers are no longer in production, so there s only really two tulip families now. Gordon: [36:15] Oh, okay. Did your dad ever get to Finland to see the family? Your dad? Nordic American Voices Page 19 of 39

20 John: [36:23] No, my dad never went to Finland. Never got there. Actually, my dad basically farmed all his life. When he retired Well, back during the war, he decided that when he would retire, he wanted to go into real estate. He saw some kind of an advertisement that said you could become a broker if you went through this course. So he traveled back and forth to Seattle for several weeks, and eventually got his broker s license, hung it up in my uncle s law office for many years until he retired. Then eventually when he retired, he became a real estate broker. He wasn t too active in that, but it kept him busy. Gordon: [37:12] Yeah. John: [37:13] Yeah. Gordon: [37:14] So he never got to meet the family? John: [37:17] Never got to meet the family. No. Gordon: [37:19] Yeah. John: [37:20] Yeah. Gordon: [37:21] So what do you think you inherited from those two generations of immigrants? Well, your dad wasn t an immigrant, but John: [37:30] What did I inherit? Well, I don t know. I suppose One of the things, my dad was very avid on, is he thought everybody should get a good education. And both my mother and dad thought the same way. So both my I have two sisters, and we all went on to college. I went on to law school, and my sisters both were schoolteachers. Then my one sister became a real estate Not a real estate, but a travel agent. And the other sister and her husband went into the restaurant business. Both my mother and dad thought you should get a good education, and it would get you a good job eventually. And that s Gordon: [38:28] Did you or your dad or your grandfather- were they involved in any lodges, Nordic American Voices Page 20 of 39

21 organizations related to their heritage? John: [38:34] Yeah. My father was a member of the Elks Lodge. He was a charter member of the Mount Vernon lodge 1604, I think it is. When I got out of law school and moved back to Mount Vernon, he had both myself and my brother-in-law at that time- he invited us to join the lodge. I ve been an Elks member for fifty years. I m a life member. I don t go very often anymore, but that s the only lodge that I know he belonged to. [39:11] My granddad, I don t think he belonged to any lodges. He loved to play cards. There were a couple of restaurants downstairs that you d have the restaurant out in front and the card room in the back, and they d all go in the back room and play gin rummy or panginny, or whatever, you know. Poker. Gordon: [39:33] So how did you and Wilma meet? John: [39:36] That s an interesting story. Actually Wilma s dad and my dad went to high school together. And he was raised on Fir Island here. He went on to become a He was a schoolteacher, and eventually a superintendent of schools down in southwestern Washington. Every summer, he would come up to Mount Vernon, and Wilma, of course, would come with him. She worked in the fields up here during the summers. But I never knew her during that time. [40:11] But when I went to law school in Spokane, another fellow and I went to one of their weekend dances, and he saw a girl he had gone out with. We went over, and he introduced me to her. Wilma happened to be with her, and he introduced me to Wilma. And you know, you say, Where are you from? And I said, I m from a small town in northern Washington. And she said, You must be John Kamb. She knew me already. [Laughter] But her friends had all told her I was going to be over there, and she might run into me, so that s how we met. That was back in 1950, I think it was. Gordon: [40:56] 50. What year were you married? Wilma: [40:58] In 53. I used to line him up with girls in the hall for dates. He was my friend. Nordic American Voices Page 21 of 39

22 [Laughter] Gordon: [41:05] Oh! [Laughter] You lined him up with dates, you said? Wilma: [41:09] With dates. Yeah. Girls from the hall. Because I had a boyfriend at the time. John: [41:13] She went to Holy Name College, you see. Gordon: [41:15] Oh, okay. Wilma: [41:16] And he was going to Gonzaga. John: [41:17] And that was a women s college at the time. It s no longer there. Gordon: [41:23] [Laughter] So she was looking out after you. John: [41:25] She was looking out after me. Wilma: [41:26] I was kind of like his big sister. [Laughter] Gordon: [41:29] [Laughter] Oh, interesting. Wilma: [41:32] And we never really went out together until about the end of the year. I was a class president, and we had our senior prom, and I was the junior class president. We had to lead the grand march. So anyhow, I needed a date, so I asked him if he d go with me. [Laughter] Gordon: [41:57] And the rest is history. Wilma: [41:58] Yeah. John: [42:00] Yeah. Nordic American Voices Page 22 of 39

23 Wilma: [42:00] But when you said about, what did you inherit from your parents, I would say a handshake meant something in those days. If you had a nice firm handshake, you didn t have to have a legal document. Your word was very important. You were as good as your word. That was one thing that was very prominent in those people. And hard work. You know, they grew up with hard work, and they respected it. They were very ambitious. Gordon: [42:43] And education. Wilma: [42:44] Good education. Gordon: [42:45] College. Yeah. That was my father, too. Wilma: [42:50] But a man was as good as his word. That was very important. Gordon: [42:54] I m going to pause here. [TAPE BREAK 42:55] Gordon: [42:56] So now we re joined by John Kamb John Jr: [42:59] Junior. Gordon: [43:00] Junior. John Junior. John Jr: [43:00] Right. Gordon: [43:01] Actually, you re the third. John Jr: [43:02] Yeah. And I m the only I think, member of the family who wasn t born in Skagit County, or in Mount Vernon. I was actually born in Seattle. Gordon: [43:11] Uh oh. Nordic American Voices Page 23 of 39

24 John Jr: [43:12] Yeah. I don t know why. [Laughter] You were living down there for a while, I guess. But I m the number two child of nine. I grew up here in Mount Vernon, also, and went through the schools here and the high school, and I eventually went to Gonzaga also, and became a lawyer. Gordon: [43:31] Did you know your grandfather or great-grandfather? I guess you John Jr: [43:33] No, my great-grandfather, Dad said he died in He actually died in 1956, the year I was born. So just prior to my birth. Gordon: [43:43] Yeah. So you ve become interested in your heritage. Why? John Jr: [43:48] Well, I don t know. I ve always grown up with an interest in history. And it probably came from my mother s family. It seems like Mom tells lots of stories, and she knows We call it She gets together with the families, and it s always a who begot whom [laughter] story. You know, we see names and connections and everything like that. Lots of things like that. [44:18] But I kind of grew up being the repository of all the stuff. I have all the pictures, and all the old letters, and all the Tried to get the connections. Everyone seems to dump it on me. And I have an interest in the history of Mount Vernon, and I was a history major in college. I ve been on the board of directors of the history museum here. Gordon: [44:41] Oh, really? Yeah. John Jr: [44:42] It s just kind of been an interest to me. Gordon: [44:44] Anything that stands out in your researching? John Jr: [44:53] About the family? Gordon: [44:53] About your family, or about the history Nordic American Voices Page 24 of 39

25 John Jr: [44:55] Well, one thing Dad didn t mention, he. His grandfather came here in, we think, about the late 1880s, actually- came to Skagit County. I think he originally came and he worked on the dikes and worked on the farmland out near Padilla Bay, and he lived out there before building the house on McClain Road. And his father was actually born in Padilla, not Mount Vernon. John: [45:23] Oh, Padilla. John Jr: [45:24] Right. He was born on the farm in Wilma: [45:29] They rented the farm. John Jr: [45:30] Yeah, maybe. I don t know. I don t know that, if they rented the farm, or owned it, or whatever. I think that what s important in the family is that John W. Kamb came, and then his brother came ten years later. Gordon: [45:46] That s Oscar. John Jr: [45:47] And then a sister came. I don t know if you know the sister at all. John: [45:51] No. John Jr: [45:52] You know, her family She grew up in this area, too. Wilma: [45:54] She was the baby. John Jr: [45:55] And we don t know a lot about that family, although they grew up here, too. Why they ended up there was probably because of John coming here. But I don t know how close they were. I don t think they were very close. I do know that John W s family- they grew up speaking English and going to the schools, whereas his brother Oscar s family spoke Swedish and had trouble in school. They stayed on the farm, mostly. But he had a... what would be your cousin, then, I guess- Fred Boyton- became a lawyer. Nordic American Voices Page 25 of 39

26 John: [46:37] Yeah. And then Roy was an engineer. John Jr: [46:40] And one was a writer- a Hollywood writer. The family, what dad said- they were very keen on education, but in a different way, I think. So they grew up speaking Swedish, and I don t think the families were really very close. John: [46:56] No, but Oscar and Roy and Carl, Rufus- even though they spoke Swedish Their mother spoke Swedish. But they spoke good English. Their English was good. Wilma: [47:11] Oh, yeah. Gordon: [47:12] That was Kamb Road that separated the two farms? John: [47:15] Right, uh huh. John Jr: [47:15] The two big farms. Gordon: [47:17] Is that farm still in the family, or is it? John Jr: [47:20] No, neither of them are in the family anymore. But they re Both of the big houses still stand on either side of the road. Gordon: [47:28] Okay. Yeah. Wilma: [47:31] And Alma was Swedish [inaudible 47:34]. John Jr: [47:35] And she was a writer, too. Wilma: [47:35] Yeah. She was a writer. And he married within the Swedish [inaudible 47:43]. John Jr: [47:43] Right. Okay. Nordic American Voices Page 26 of 39

27 Gordon: [47:45] Do you ever have family reunions? John Jr: [47:48] Oh, occasionally we do. Not a whole lot, but we ll try to get a big group together whenever some event happens. Wilma: [47:55] Like Dad s eightieth. John Jr: [47:56] Yeah. When Dad had his eightieth birthday, it was at the Hope Island Inn, where he used to go with his grandfather. [Laughter] Well, we got some well, a big family group together. It was real interesting. Gordon: [48:08] Yeah. John Jr: [48:09] Yeah. Gordon: [48:10] Great. John Jr: [48:11] Uh huh. What else? I don t know. Gordon: [48:12] Yeah. John Jr: [48:14] Your dad liked baseball, right? John: [48:16] Oh, yeah. My dad was a Yankee fan. Gordon: [48:19] Really? John: [48:20] Yeah. He thought the Yankees were the only real baseball club. [Laughter] It was his wish, eventually, before he died, to be able to go to New York and go to Yankee stadium, which he eventually got to do. Gordon: [48:34] He did? Nordic American Voices Page 27 of 39

28 John: [48:35] Yeah. He loved the New York Yankees. [Laughter] Gordon: [48:38] So he really did become an American, didn t he? [Laughter] John: [48:42] And he and I always We went to the Seattle Rainiers oftentimes. In fact, Dad took me to the opening of Sick s Stadium. Prior to that time, they played at another field, but they eventually had the grand opening, so Dad and I went to that game. And I remember I had to get an excuse from the school, so my mother wrote an excuse and sent me to school with it. It said, Please let John out of school at eleven o clock because he s going to the ballgame with his dad. The principal of the grade school at the time said, John, we can t let you go. That s against the rules. So I just broke down and cried and ran home. We lived about two blocks [49:35] My mother called the principal and said, What s all this about? He said, Well, we can t let him out. The school board says you can t be excused for something like that. She said, Well, what s going to happen if I just take him? He said, Well, I suppose there s nothing I can do then. [Laughter] So they took me. [Laughter] Gordon: [49:53] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, there s some things that are more important, right? [Laughter] John: [49:58] Right. Wilma: [49:58] And you should tell about [inaudible 50:00] bridge. John: [50:03] Pardon? Wilma: [50:04] You should tell him about your bridge. John: [50:07] Oh. One of my hobbies is duplicate bridge. I like to go to bridge tournaments. Gordon: [50:16] Oh, okay. Nordic American Voices Page 28 of 39

29 John: [50:16] So I ve done that for many, many years. When I was in the army, I became close friends with a fellow by the name of James Kane. And he was from Chicago, and he played duplicate bridge. He taught me how to do it, and we used to go to tournaments over in Tokyo. Actually Yokohama. And that became a hobby of mine. So when I came home, I just kept it up. We went to the local clubs, and eventually to various tournaments. Duplicate is a real popular game. I don t know if you ve run into anyone that has been involved in it. Gordon: [50:59] No. John: [50:59] The fellow that I learned from, though, he went on to become CEO of Bear Stearns in New York City. Gordon: [51:06] Oh. He did all right. What kind of a practice, or what s your client base? John: [51:12] Well, when I first started practicing law, there were about twenty lawyers in the whole county. And you had to be a jack-of-all-trades. You did criminal law; you did divorce; you did personal injury. You name it, we did it. But nowadays, the legal profession has gotten to be more specialized. Right now all I m doing is bankruptcy work. And I do a lot of that. Of course, we don t practice in Skagit County courts. We re in federal courts. Bankruptcy is a federal procedure. [51:49] But John here, he is a partner of mine in the office. Or I m his partner, I guess. And he does a lot of other things. He does a lot of other things. He does family law, divorce law, probate, personal injury, real estate, you name it. Things I always did when I first started, but I don t do much anymore. I was a district court judge in Skagit County for eight years, many years ago. Then when the boys starting cominh into law school, and my daughter, I gave that up so I could practice with them. Gordon: [52:22] Cool. John: [52:23] Yeah. But we re still active. We still have our Nordic American Voices Page 29 of 39

30 Gordon: [52:26] So where do you go for the bankruptcy? Is there a federal court in John: [52:30] Yeah, all bankruptcies are filed in U.S. federal court in Seattle, but depending upon where the party lives depends on where they go for their first meeting with creditors. First meeting with creditors is called a 341 meeting. Like if a party lives in Skagit or Whatcom County, even though the case is filed in Seattle, they go to court in Bellingham. If they live in Snohomish or Island County, maybe they go to their first hearing in Everett. If you live in Tacoma, you might go to a different court. It just depends on where the parties live. Yeah. Gordon: [53:10] Okay. What is your Christmas like? That s always If there s any hints of Scandinavian culture, that usually shows up at Christmastime. John Jr: [53:17] You better talk about that. I don t know. [Laughter] John: [53:21] Do we have any Wilma: [53:22] I used to make krumkake all the time. John Jr: [53:26] Here. Come back here. [Laughter] Gordon: [53:28] Yeah. John Jr: [53:28] Stop. Gordon: [53:29] Okay. So you re going to tell us about your Christmas preparations and goodies, huh? Wilma: [53:37] Well, you know, I used to make krumkake all the time, but I don t make it anymore. There used to be a wonderful bakery in Stanwood. Gordon: [53:47] Stanwood. Oh, yes. I know it. Nordic American Voices Page 30 of 39

31 Wilma: [53:49] The Stanwood Bakery. And that s where I did my baking. [Laughter] I used to go down to Stanwood and load up, and have all the Scandinavian things. Gordon: [54:01] Yeah, he was a lefse maker, that guy. Wilma: [54:03] Yeah. I used to get lefse there, and we always had lefse. That was one of the things we had. Our extended family now is about thirty members, and we always open our gifts on Christmas Eve. My mother is Irish, so we re Catholic, and we d go to midnight mass. That was always part of it. But I don t go anymore because I m too old to be up so late. [Laughter] But anyway, other than the krumkake, that was about the only thing I Gordon: [54:45] And whatever you got from the bakery. Wilma: [54:48] Oh, yeah. And we always had When I was a child and we were on the Crogstad farm, we always had lutefisk on Christmas Eve. And we always served it with butter. The Swedes always had the white mustard sauce. But we always had that at the Crogstad place. Do you want to stop it, because I ve got to think. Gordon: [55:18] Oh, sure. [TAPE BREAK 55:18] Wilma: [55:19] We always had sill. Gordon: [55:23] Oh, yes. John: [55:24] That s why my granddad liked to go over to the Hope Island Café every Sunday. They had lutefisk and sill. Wilma: [55:32] They didn t always have lutefisk, but they always had sill. John: [55:35] Yeah. Nordic American Voices Page 31 of 39

32 Gordon: [55:36] And that was in La Conner? John: [55:38] Yeah. Wilma: [55:39] It was outside. John: [55:40] Outside La Conner. Yeah. Wilma: [55:41] And he used to The people there used to fix him up a little pint of sill to take home, because he loved the sill. Gordon: [55:51] Sill, yeah. Okay. That was probably his tradition. John: [55:54] Right. Gordon: [55:55] Yeah. Wilma: [55:56] And they had the flatbread. John: [55:57] Now on the other hand, I can t stand it. [Laughter] Wilma: [55:59] He won t eat lutefisk or sill. And I don t think anybody really likes lutefisk. I think they have to. That s part of their [inaudible 56:11] is to like lutefisk. Gordon: [56:13] You might be right. Yeah. Wilma: [56:14] [Laughter] I don t know. But we always ate a little bit. We always had to have a little bit. Gordon: [56:20] Yeah. Nordic American Voices Page 32 of 39

33 Wilma: [56:21] And boiled potatoes. That was part of our bringing up. Gordon: [56:26] Great. I think we probably covered a lot. Appreciate you coming in today. John: [56:32] That s why I brought them along today, because Gordon: [56:34] Yeah. Well, no, that s fine. Three heads are better than one, right? Wilma: [56:38] I was going to say, my grandmother was buried from this church in She was Danish. Gordon: [56:45] Oh, okay. Wilma: [56:45] On my Crogstad side. And this church, they spoke Norwegian. So my grandfather wouldn t let the kids come here, because he said, We re in America, and we re not going to speak Norwegian. We re going to speak English. And of course, his wife was Danish, and she couldn t speak Norwegian. Gordon: [57:03] All their services were in Norwegian? Wilma: [57:05] Yes. Gordon: [57:06] Oh. Wilma: [57:06] Uh huh. John Jr: [57:07] The one across the bridge wasn t, though. Wilma: [57:09] No. But anyhow, because she had been raised Lutheran, Reverend Hymdal made an exception. She wasn t a member of the church, but he had her funeral here because she was Lutheran. That was in September of I was only six months old when she died. Nordic American Voices Page 33 of 39

34 Gordon: [57:33] Oh. This was your grandmother? Wilma: [57:35] That was Grandmother Crogstad. Uh huh. Gordon: [57:36] Crogstad. Okay. Wilma: [57:37] But she was buried from this church. Gordon: [57:40] Well, that was generous of them. [Laughter] Wilma: [57:42] Yeah. Uh huh. And I thought I kind of have an affinity. I see the picture over there of the church. I d like to have a picture of the church, because that was my grandmother s. Gordon: [57:52] Well, great. Thank you so much. Oh. John: [57:53] What s that book you have there, John? John Jr: [57:56] It s odds and ends, but this is something that your sister put together. Margie put together. It just has some pictures. Wilma: [58:03] There s some pictures. John Jr: [58:04] There s some pictures of the brothers. I don t know if you want to see some of that. Gordon: [58:11] It would be hard to scan. John Jr: [58:13] Yeah. Okay. Gordon: [58:15] Yeah. John Jr: [58:16] I didn t know what this was going to all entail, so Nordic American Voices Page 34 of 39

35 Gordon: [58:19] Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it so much. John: [58:21] Thank you very much. Gordon: [58:22] Enjoyed it. John: [58:24] We appreciate your inviting us to this interview. Gordon: [58:27] Well, it s our privilege. [TAPE BREAK 58:29] Gordon: [58:30] All right. Wilma: [58:30] This is one of my favorite stories. About 1940, there was a woman who interviewed an old Indian woman who used to live down on Fir Island along the dike. And anyhow, her name was Mrs. Ball, and I used to visit Mrs. Ball when I was a little kid. I d go down there with my aunts and visit her. And anyhow, Mrs. Ball, she asked her, in her childhood, what was it like? She said, Well, there were no white people. John: [59:07] On Fir Island. Wilma: [59:08] Living on Fir Island. She said, There were just us Indians, and Norwegians. [Laughter] So that s one of my favorite stories. Gordon: [59:19] [Laughter] Yeah, that s great. So, Fir Island you don t realize it s an island. Wilma: [59:26] No. Gordon: [59:26] Can you kind of explain that? Why Nordic American Voices Page 35 of 39

36 John Jr: [59:27] It s a river delta. Wilma: [59:30] Yeah. Gordon: [59:30] It s a river delta. John Jr: [59:31] Just upriver from where we are right here, about a mile up, it forks. Gordon: [59:36] Oh, okay. John Jr: [59:36] The river forks to the north and the south. Wilma: [59:38] So we re on Fir Island here. John Jr: [59:39] And they both enter into Skagit Bay. Gordon: [59:41] Yeah. John Jr: [59:42] And so we re the delta in between. Gordon: [59:44] Gotcha. Okay. John Jr: [59:45] So they call it an island. Gordon: [59:46] Yeah. Okay. Wilma: [59:48] And my family lives about a mile? John Jr: [59:53] Yeah, about a mile. Wilma: [59:54] About a mile up the road, is where our farm was. Nordic American Voices Page 36 of 39