PART 6 Budo international magazine has published an interview with WKF President, Antonio Espinós, in English, French and Spanish. Due to the length and interest of this article, we have considered convenient to post it divided into several parts. How is that the some countries that are actually parts of other countries are allowed to take part in championships separately? There s the UK, with England, Wales, Ireland and the British Virgin Islands, there s Holland with Curaçao, Aruba and St. Martin, there s China with Macau, Hong Kong and Taipei); and France with Guadalupe, French Guyana, Martinique. Great Britain, for example, has a special agreement to participate in the WKF congress with a single vote even though they ve got four teams that pay for their affiliation separately. Something similar happens in other sports and it s been that way at the World Federation for quite a few years now and it s not so bad. Is that the same as happened with others like France and China? Every case is different. It only happens in France with their colonies in Oceania, which can take part in the Oceania championships but not in the world championships. And the same thing happens in Asia with Macao, which is recognised by the Olympic Council of Asia Are all the similar cases recognised by their respective Olympic committees? There are lots that are. Hong Kong has the same status as Macao. That s China. But their Olympic Committee is recognised by the IOC, whereas the Macao one isn t just by the Asian one, the Olympic Council of Asia. I was at the AOC meeting in November 2012 and Macao was there as a full member, but they re not recognised by the International Olympic Committee. 1
It s quite a mess, whichever way you look at it, although it seems clear that the WKF does have grounds for recognising these countries separately. Yes. Curaçao is another case, where their Olympic Committee was recognised by the IOC until eighteen months ago but not anymore. Also, wasn t it William Millerson, the WKF Vice-president, who was the president of the Curaçao Olympic Committee? Yes, that s right, and he still is and they still have an Olympic Committee but they re not recognised by the IOC. But Aruba, which is even smaller than Curaçao, has an IOC-recognised Olympic committee, and it has one member who s a member of the IOC and a secretary who s also an IOC member. Wow! If the sporting politics of the WKF have their idiosyncrasies, they re nothing alongside those of the IOC, where everything is obviously a lot more strange, and even quite incomprehensible at times. Right now there are a lot of women who because they are women have certain rights. There are cases where because they re women they have fewer rights than men until they reach a certain level, but after that they have more rights. There s a very vague dividing line, and once you cross it. Today, being a woman on the IOC is a plus. Some women wouldn t be IOC members if they weren t female. They re looking to strike a balance and this is what happens. It s not fair, when you compare them with some men who are more deserving yet they re not members, but that s life. I agree. There are some cases and groups where striving for parity has led to women rising into positions instead of men where on merit or seniority they wouldn t yet be qualified. To reach certain positions or ranks you need to have a certain number of years experience, so if women have started working in this field later than men, how can parity be fair? You can t have female generals, or tenth dans, for example, if historically, for whatever reasons fair or otherwise they haven t been got the necessary years in. But let s not get sidetracked. There is one case, where Gunnar Nordahl, from Norway, has been criticised for being a member of the WKF executive committee when he lives outside his country of origin, specifically in the United States. Nordahl was appointed as senior vice-president of the WKF in 2005. Yes, Nordahl lives in the States but he s in very close contact with the Norwegian federation and with karate in Norway. If I had to rank how important the members of the EC are for the WKF or for me, then Nordahl would be close to the top. He s a fine professional and is extremely knowledgeable about karate. He s given us a lot of support for a long time now. Yes, it s true that he s been living in the States for a long time, but he stays perfectly in touch with what s going on. He s worth a lot. He s an engineer and he s been around. He s a major 2
asset. He also has a very good relationship with the Canadian and American federations. I wish I had more people like him. On the Executive Committee I ve always aimed to achieve a balance between those who are serving Presidents of National Federations and those who aren t. It s a dynamic balance. A lot of changes occur over a four-year term and I want to have people who are well regarded when they re Presidents in office and also when they re not. Some people are Presidents when they re elected but then leave office, and so on, and after they leave they re not always well thought of by their Federations any more. This is something I pay close attention to and I try to maintain a balance. Do people come and go a lot? Yes, a lot. It may not look that way because we live from day to day, but if you look at the photos and data from four years earlier you can see just how many changes there have been. What would you say to those who think that you can get rid of anyone who after four years on the executive committee might threaten your position? Because in order to stand for President of the WKF you have to have been an EC member for at least four years, don t you? Yes, that s the way it is. You can only stand for President if you ve been a member of the Executive Committee for at least four years over the previous three terms in other words, over the last twelve years. Even before we agreed it that s the way it was at the Asian Federation and everyone was happy with that. It s always been that way. It s not a recent rule, then, but it s always been that way? Always. And before that, when I first joined, you had to be a fourth Dan Grade too. I removed that rule because it made no sense, although some people defended it. To be elected you need to be familiar with the sport and, yes, you have to have been on the EC for at least four years. So would it be reasonable to think that you could indeed get rid of anyone who might stand against you? Yes, clearly. The power is there, so yes. It s always been that way but it s never been used that way. But if people are looking for things to snipe at. Those who criticise these things haven t read the Statutes thoroughly, because there s one thing they haven t had a go at me for yet but they could. In order to be able to vote at congress you have to have had sporting activity during the previous year and the current year. I m sure there are some people who think it s wrong that countries that have had no sporting activity aren t entitled to vote, but. That avoids, for example, someone coming in from outside with 20 million, giving money to 40 countries from Africa to vote for them, and then winning. I think it s a good thing. The idea changed in 2006 when there were some big changes made to the Statutes, and I took this from the Spanish legislation, from back when I was President of the Spanish Federation. 3
It made sense to me. It prevents large groups of people with agendas who have nothing to do with the workings of the Federation. The Federations should be run by people who are on the inside and work there, not by people who arrive en masse with hidden agendas. It s happened in other ambits. Rules are brought in when things happen. I think it s a good thing, because there are WKF member Federations from more than 180 countries, but only about 100 of them take part in the competitions. It makes sense to me for the others to have no right of influence. Does the WKF ask for too much to organise a very clean World Championships? People say we re asking for a lot of money to be able to organise a WKF World Championships and a deposit. It all depends on how you look at it. I think we ask for very little money and give a lot in return. We ask for 30,000 Swiss francs in air fares for the organising committee, some Commissions members, some from the Executive Committee not many and a few nights hotel rooms, which works out at 240 for junior and 280 for senior. All the rest is paid for by the WKF. We ask for a deposit of 40,000 Swiss Francs which will probably go up a bit soon. Look, Salvador, it s like this. Not long ago at a sporting event there were some South American NOCs presidents there including the one from Peru, they re organising the 2019 Pan-American Games, and they asked me about the possibility of holding a future World Karate championships there. When I told them what we were asking for and what we give in return, he thought it was cheap! I explained to him that there are image rights for the senior events, that we produce and pay TV, the international signal, and that we sell the advertising slots... He thought it was really cheap! I came away thinking that I should have asked for more to get him to take us seriously! Some people think what we ask for is to be able to live a life of luxury. Since I ve been here, the official hotel, the HQ, for instance, has to be a hotel for everybody. Our rules say that hotels can t be luxury hotels, not five stars but four. They have to be hotels that are decent places, with good meeting spaces to hold the refereeing course, the congress, spaces for the delegations to check in, meeting rooms and so on, but that s all. Then for the European Championships it s similar but on smaller scale. Even the deposit we ask for is only 6,000, while the number of hotel rooms is less than half. It s good that people should know these things, because sometimes they may think that things are different from the way they really are. Yes, but I think some people criticise us not because they don t know the facts but with bad intentions. I don t know why if the information is there they don t just deal with it. Because each person takes a piece of information and uses only the part of it that fits their agenda. They pick and choose. If people know four good things and two bad things about somebody it s in their interests to criticise, they only hold on to one of the bad ones. 4
I give the figures, the information, and then if someone thinks that 30,000 Swiss francs for air fares is a scandal, daylight robbery, there s not much I can do about it. If people think that 240 nights at the HQ is daylight robbery, then it s daylight robbery. Everyone s free to make their own mind up. But the facts are what they are. Interview by Salvador Herraiz 5