Elko County Board of Commissioners

Transcription

1 Elko County Board of Commissioners Commissioners Demar Dahl Glen Guttry Charlie Myers Warren Russell R. Jeff Williams Elko County Manager Robert K. Stokes STATE OF NEVADA ) COUNTY OF ELKO ) ss. The Board of Elko County Commissioners met in special session on Monday, June 4, 2012, at 1:30 p.m., in Suite 102 of the Nannini Administrative Building at 540 Court Street, Elko, Nevada. There were present: County Commissioners R. Jeff Williams, Chair Demar Dahl Glen Guttry Charlie Myers Warren Russell County Manager Robert Stokes CFO/Asst Manager Cash Minor Deputy County Clerk Marilyn Tipton Planning/Zoning/NRMAC Randy Brown Chairman Williams called the meeting to order at 1:30 p.m. Cash Minor led the meeting participants in the Pledge of Allegiance. 1:34:05 PM I. COMMENTS BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC: Leta Collard, Northeastern Nevada Stewardship Group, stated they were in the process of updating their strategy that was accepted in They encouraged further coordinated plans against those opposing grazing and multiuse. Leta Collard stated they have sympathies with the predation topic and suggested that the US Fish and Wildlife Service take a look at ravens and other corbie that may be depredating on sage grouse at this time. Leta Collard commented they had worked on fire ecology. She recommended they read a recently published book, Nevada Changing Wildlife Habitat, an Ecological History, by George E. Gruell and Sherman Swanson. Chairman Williams voiced appreciation to the Northeastern Nevada Stewardship Group on behalf of the Commission. PAGE 1

2 1:38:23 PM Commissioner Williams relinquished control of the meeting to Public Lands Chairman Dahl. II. GREATER SAGE-GROUSE MANAGEMENT ISSUE: Discussion and consideration of issues related to the Greater Sage-Grouse management issues including the BLM Greater Sage-Grouse Interim Management Policies and Procedures Instruction Memorandum; the Governor s Greater Sage-Grouse Advisory Committee; development of an Elko County Plan to manage Sage-Grouse including impacts to public lands management processes and operations, and other possible public land management implications. Commissioner Dahl stated Quinton Barr was representing the County at the Governor s Sage Grouse Committee meetings. He stated their proposal was to review the position of the US Fish and Wildlife Service on the ESA and present a plan for Elko County. Commissioner Myers noted Quinton Barr mentioned the minimum sage grouse numbers within the Endangered Species Act yet the federal government was not recognizing those as a viable argument. He requested Randy Brown to research what the ESA specifically said about sage grouse. He asked for copies of the two rulings from Judge Winmill. Commissioner Myers questioned what their legal standing was in this and what the legal authority was of the Commission based upon that information. Commissioner Dahl stated at their meeting they continuously asked the US Fish & Wildlife representative what Court had not accepted the minimum population projections under ESA. Commissioner Myers questioned how they could list the bird under habitat rather than population. 1:44:08 PM Cliff Gardner did not recommend challenging the decisions made by the US Fish and Wildlife Service but rather address it on a local planning level. He noted the agencies were arguing there would be a downward trend in the species and they were responsible to devise plans for the protection of the species. Cliff Gardner stated when they address the sage grouse at the local level they could raise the issue that if the roads were closed there would be no predator trapping and fire suppression would be impacted. He stated they could make the County s position known through the County s planning. Cliff Gardner stated the public was not being granted due process which was to protect the individuals within the community and allow them to have a forum to debate the science. Cliff Gardner commented the federal government has implemented policies in the PAGE 2

3 past 50 years that were detrimental to sage grouse. Cliff Gardner submitted written material to the Commission for the record. 1:53:07 PM: Ralph Sacrison reviewed the documents published by Condor in Wyoming. He stated that study was represented in the BLM document by Doherty with a map of the sage grouse population concentrations in its current or presumed estimated historic range. Ralph Sacrison stated there were at least 10 areas across the range where the sage grouse minimum viable population for genetic survivability limit of 5,000 existed. He stated in terms of straight numbers there were roughly at least 100 times the listing requirements. Ralph Sacrison stated in terms of area, the bird exists across 159,000 square miles. He stated they only need 421 square miles for the sage grouse to survive genetically. Ralph Sacrison commented the agencies maintain the bird has decreased from 300,000 square miles to 159,000 square miles and the actions taken by the federal agency upon the oil and gas leases and China Mountain Wind Project was an attempt to go back to the 300,000 square miles to establish that population. He stated that amount of area would take them from the existing 535,000 population to approximately 1 million birds if they average 3 birds per square mile claimed by the agencies. Ralph Sacrison stated he was not commenting as a scientist of natural resources but as a taxpayer. He believed the agencies had an opportunity to declare that they must control that habitat in the 300,000 square miles which would triple their effective land control without any legislative action without any executive action, simply by claiming that another agency was going to list that bird. Ralph Sacrison stated the most deleterious action to the habitat was the ravens, the coyotes, and cutting back on grazing. He commented if they would allow the ranchers to ranch and the teenagers target practice they would take care of the sage grouse problems. Commissioner Guttry stated listing requirement of 5,000 sage grouse population has come up numerous times and he questioned if that number was legitimate. He inquired what particular number of sage grouse they have to maintain. He requested that number be verified. Ralph Sacrison stated now that it was obvious that the 5,000 population count was exceeded by current population, the agencies were ignoring the 5,000 number. He stated the 5,000 minimum viable populations came from the US Fish and Wildlife 2010 findings. Ralph Sacrison stated, as a taxpayer, he perceived the number did not have anything to do with the survivability of the bird but the growth of the bureaucracy. Ralph Sacrison reiterated this would give the federal agencies the ability through the ESA to control 300,000 square miles. Commissioner Guttry believed they were so far above the listing requirement of 5,000 no one would listen to the 5,000 number. PAGE 3

4 Ralph Sacrison stated in reading through the numbers on breeding densities, area coverage and total population counts displayed, the agencies objective was to control more acreage and noted 300,000 square miles was 10% of the nation. Commissioner Williams inquired if Judge Winmill was pushing the effort towards habitat for the agencies. Ralph Sacrison stated whether they look at the Wyoming plan or the findings of US FWS on listing, the habitat management was simply taking care of the predators. He commented the agencies address the power and telephone lines, and fences which provide perches for predators, because the sage grouse do not collide with fences. Ralph Sacrison stated virtually all the habitat management whether edge effect of short grasses, tall grasses, short sage brush, or tall sage brush provides cover for predators. He stated all habitat management was high cost predator management. Ralph Sacrison commented if they call it habitat management they do drill seeding and prescribed burns with many 4 wheel drive mobile latte holders as possible. Commissioner Guttry stated the number issue should be addressed first. Grant Gerber commented the government graph started with the number of 2 million sage grouse. He noted their graph depicted after the 1950 s and 1960 s a decline through the years but that was actually the time when they began counting. He agreed it was a number game. Commissioner Russell stated the County must be objective in their planning to develop a logical plan, and it must not be on politically correct strategy. He supported Commissioner Guttry s question of an objective number. 2:10:38 PM Quinton Barr, Western Range Service, stated the question of whether it was a numbers game hinges upon whether the County was being coerced into this process under the threat that if they don t do something then the bird would be listed under the ESA. He stated if the County was to move forward with a plan there should be two phases or features. The first was to identify all the reasons why the County can contend that it was not an Endangered Species Act issue which dealt with the minimum viable population for genetic survivability of 5,000 which was discussed in previous meetings. He stated the US Fish and Wildlife s facts within their 12 month findings published in 2010 demonstrated no one should be compelled to deal with the sage grouse issue under the auspice of the ESA because the bird does not qualify under the definitions of that Act, under the purpose set forth in that Act, or under the Congressional intent when the Act was passed. Quinton Barr stated the County plan should identify that from the offset and it could show that there were multiple locations throughout the bird s range where there were in excess of 5,000 breeding birds that have geographical PAGE 4

5 connections so genetic material was able to be shared among a population of 5,000 or more birds. He stated because there were multiple locations where that was occurring under existing circumstances, there was redundancy built into the situation. Quinton Barr stated there was no question that the bird was not at risk for extinction in the near term. Given all those facts, he stated the rates of decline that the US Fish and Wildlife Service spoke about showed there was no risk for extinction of the species in the foreseeable future. He noted if they use the US FWS numbers it would take 300 years before the populations would decline at the rate they think they were declining today. Quinton Barr stated the Elko County plan should show that range-wide they have multiple locations that have populations that were above the 5,000 threshold; they have redundancy and have distinct populations that were before the 5,000 threshold so the bird was not warranted for listing. Quinton Barr suggested the second phase of the County Plan should address that even though the bird was not warranted for listing they should have plans in place for conservation of the bird. He stated Elko County could recognize it was an important game bird; therefore, Elko County has an interest in conserving the species. Quinton Barr commented that regardless if the bird was listed or not it should be made clear that Elko County was moving forward with its conservation plan. He stated it may compel the US Fish and Wildlife Service to evaluate the County s information within its final findings. He suggested the County come up with goals that was not regulatory control based but incentive based because the lengthy permitting process was driving the mines to other countries. He said an incentive based program would allow the mines to expand their operations through a fast tract permitting process by funding rehabilitation projects on the burned areas on public lands to improve the sage grouse habitat. Quinton Barr explained the funding could go into conservation projects to benefit the sage grouse and retain the local mining projects, whereas, mitigation was only where the mining expansion would affect existing sage grouse habitat. Commissioner Russell commented that would become another tax and become another revenue source for the BLM which did not relate directly to their activity. Quinton Barr believed the decision makers on those projects would be willing to spend the funding on conservation efforts for the sage grouse rather than on the EA or EIS processes. Quinton Barr stated the incentive concept would give the people an opportunity to develop the economy, produce something useful and improve the environment. He stated they cannot erase all the layers of restrictive laws and regulations in one day but it could relax a lot of those rules and still provide for the environment while having economic development. PAGE 5

6 Commissioner Guttry understood the mining industry was already doing that without a formal program and gave the TS Ranch as an example. He understood those efforts would help them get their permits quicker. Commissioner Guttry was told the time to acquire permits was decreasing. Commissioner Guttry reviewed the first phase of Quinton Barr s recommendation was to present a strong case that the Endangered Species Act was not relevant to this bird and bird should not be listed. He supported phase two of implementing a conservation plan to keep the bird off the ESA list. 2:32:23 PM Cliff Gardner had followed the listing of the desert tortoise in Southern Nevada. He stated the mining companies bought some of the ranching areas in Clark County and turned them over to the Nature Conservancy which was then turned back to the federal agency. He stated it developed into something that any construction company or any contractor would have to put more money up for mitigation. Cliff Gardner stated that funding had been allocated to the Nature Conservancy, University of Nevada, to the Forest Service, the BLM, the State Park Service, etc. In the 1980 s and 1990 s the mines in Elko County put in money to fence rights of ways, to do seedings, and buy ranches in Charleston. Cliff Gardner explained there were laws that they could establish mill sites and gain a patent on it but the agencies dragged their feet to accomplish that so mines were buying ranches to trade the federal government for the mill sites. Cliff Gardner commented that the seed mix the federal agencies were planting on the public lands was not beneficial to the sage grouse. He believed the issue was lack of predator control regardless of how much sage brush they plant. 2:37:13 PM Quinton Barr stated the County spoke about using an emergency provision to fast-track the County sage grouse plan but they knew the biggest impact upon sage grouse populations in the Great Basin area was predation. He stated the federal agencies essentially eliminated all the ability for average citizenry to control the predators. Quinton Barr suggested the County put in their Declaration of Emergency stating that predation was the biggest impact upon the sage grouse populations and they should have a mechanism for implementation of predator control. Commissioner Myers agreed predation was the number one issue with the sage grouse population. He commented the US Fish and Wildlife Service listed nineteen things that impacted the sage grouse such as fire, invasive species, oil and gas drilling and habitat fragmentation was at the top of the list. He stated predation was number 12 on the F&W listing and hunting was 17 th on the 19 item listing. Commissioner Myers asked how they could substantiate their stance on predation in Court. Quinton Barr replied the US FWS analysis did not support PAGE 6

7 the US FWS conclusions regarding predation. He noted the US FWS stated one of the reasons the sage grouse trends were downward was because there were low reproductive rates and the F&W research showed that 80% of the eggs were being removed by predation before hatching. He commented the FWS research stated of the hatchlings 86% were killed by predators before they reach sexual maturity. Therefore, the US FWS conclusion doesn t match their science they reported on and under the Endangered Species Act the US FWS was required to rely upon the best science available and the best commercial data available. Quinton Barr stated in the development of the Elko County Plan the County should consider doing an independent review of the same science that the US Fish and Wildlife Service reported upon in the 12 Month Findings. Commissioner Dahl stated the County had previously voted to accept Quinton s position and that was their starting point. 2:46:52 PM Grant Gerber began drafting a comprehensive plan inclusive of work completed by Cliff Gardner, Quinton Barr, and Assemblyman Hansen, etc. He stated pre 1950 s research reflected there were very few wildfires. Grant Gerber commented early pioneers or explorers pre 1940 s documentation gave no history of wildfires. He had hired researchers who found no fires mentioned between 1847 and 1868 in journals from the California Trail Interpretive Center along the length of the Humboldt. Commissioner Russell inquired if there had been any evidence of fires in the past. Grant Gerber stated there was no mention of those in the journals either. He commented his researchers were presently at the museum going through the Elko Independent between 1869 up to He would also have them go through the Elko Daily Free Press for that same time period. Grant Gerber stated most of the old timers had told him there were no large fires; one fire was identified in Clover Valley in 1939 and it was estimated at 8,000 acres. He commented when he was a boy a big fire was several hundred acres. Grant Gerber suggested there be incentives in the County s plan to private landowners, Indians on Reservations and others that can establish something that has improved the habitat and increased the population. He suggested they focus on the increase in population rather than habitat. Grant Gerber proposed a pilot project in Elko County. He noted the federal government controlled the bird, the habitat, predators, etc., and have not considered outside approaches. Grant Gerber suggested the pilot project be upon a township size of land where there would be intense predator control, intense grazing and monitoring. He was convinced that the number of sage grouse numbers would increase and they could demonstrate that predation and grazing would increase the sage grouse population. Grant Gerber stated there PAGE 7

8 would have to be coordination between the private landowner and the Department of Interior. He noted Secretary Salazar had the ability to send down directives to increase predator control and increase grazing. He stated there would have to be coordination with the Department of Wildlife if the pilot project was to show a significant change in wildlife as well as sage grouse numbers within that township. He believed that pilot project would also reduce fires and they could expand that pilot project to other townships. Grant Gerber asked that his proposal go to the NRMAC advisory board for future recommendations. Commissioner Williams inquired if anyone would buy into this pilot project. Grant Gerber stated there were a lot of Congressman struggling across the west with this listing and felt this proposal should be suggested to those representatives. Commissioner Williams noted they have a sensitive time issue and they must impress the Governor, BLM, Forest Service, US FWS and Congressmen within the next few years. Grant Gerber stated the pilot project was not the complete solution but nobody else had presented an objective or constructive plan. Grant Gerber stated after attending the Idaho State Legislative meeting he felt the government would participate on a pilot project to keep the bird from being listed. Grant Gerber stated the BLM introduced their Interim Management Plan which the County heard about it on December 23 rd and it went into place on December 27 th without notice, without hearing which was an egregious approach. Grant Gerber stated Judge Winmill was not the total decision maker and it could be appealed to the Circuit Court or the Supreme Court. He was convinced the BLM did not use their best efforts to oppose Judge Winmill s decision in order to have more control. Grant Gerber stated the Interim Management Plan instituted by the BLM was as bad as or worse than if the bird was listed. He noted the County had already been hurt economically through the delay of the oil and gas leases and the delay of the China Mountain Wind Project. Commissioner Russell voiced support of the pilot project and agreed the County or the local BLM administrators did not have a voice in the implementation of the regulations. He questioned whether a township would be adequate area and inquired if the pilot project location would include mining, transmission lines, gas and oil leases, or wind farms to see the impact upon the bird population. Commissioner Russell asked how they would manage for other factors such as obnoxious weeds, etc. He noted the weather conditions impacted the area. Commissioner Dahl supported the pilot program including multi-use and several issues within the area. PAGE 8

9 Quinton Barr stated if a township was properly located it may be adequate for a pilot project. He recommended that they make sure that there was good baseline data available in that area before the project started such as the prior population and the trend in the population before the project started. Quinton Barr stated the location of the pilot project should consider the population data collected by NDOW in a consistent manner. He stated they would have to continue collecting data after the pilot project began. Quinton Barr commented the location should reflect the average population trend for the entire state. He stated the township size was adequate but may not follow township boundaries. Commissioner Dahl suggested the County Commission issue a challenge through resolution form or a press release to the Governor s Sage Grouse Committee to debunk the justification for the listing of the sage grouse. He commented that the agencies continuously tell them it was a habitat issue rather than a numbers problem. 3:14:13 PM Cliff Gardner believed the federal government would not accept the County plan. He noted the Laughlins were a good example when they stood up and spoke about predator control before NDOW, the State, the County and now the public was aware of the issues with predator control. He suggested they develop the pilot project, gather data and later present it in support of the County s position. Commissioner Dahl suggested they issue the challenge and Quinton Barr could bring back their response. 3:15:52 PM Commissioner Myers supported Quinton Barr s approach but felt Grant Gerber s pilot plan had merit but there was insufficient time. He noted the Governor s plan was to be out by July 31 st and the BLM Interim Management Policy was out and they were already administering under that. Commissioner Myers commented in twenty-four months Judge Winmill would make his decision. He stated the pilot program was a good idea for them to gather base information. Quinton Barr stated they might already have that base information if they identify a proper area. Grant Gerber stated the Governor s Sage Grouse Committee would make their recommendations prior to the pilot plan occurring. He believed if the County had some pilot plan in place they could get Congress involvement and it may be recognized that predators were the major issue. He gave an example of the spotted owl issue in Oregon where they discovered another predatory owl species was the problem rather than the habitat which was supported by the agencies and environmental groups. Grant Gerber stated they would be under the BLM Interim Management Plan forever or the Endangered Species listing. He stated the County s plan would be a positive approach. Grant Gerber stated PAGE 9

10 within the pilot project they could address several issues such as fire but it would be a three to five year plan. Quinton Barr stated the Governor s advisory committee was looking for an adequate information base. He stated there was an opportunity for the County plan to become a statewide plan if it contained good information to backup their direction. Quinton Barr stated in the BLM management plan amendment process the County could suggest an alternative as a cooperating agency and submit their plan. He stated their plan would be analyzed through the EIS when they were doing their resource management plan amendments. He noted the County does not think the science backs up the claim that the species meets the original intent and definitions under the ESA and the BLM would have to address the County s issue. 3:25:35 PM John Carpenter stated the Governor s committee was looking for information because the members sitting on that committee have not been involved within this issue. He stressed the importance of the County to proceed with a plan. He suggested a Resolution for the need and implementation of a County plan. John Carpenter stated an emergency declaration could have been called. He encouraged the County to apply for a raven permit and increase the permit numbers drastically. John Carpenter suggested a bigger acreage for the pilot project and recommended three or four townships. He believed the Governor s Sage Grouse Committee should ask the western Governors to request the US Fish and Wildlife to take the ravens off the migratory bird tree. John Carpenter stated it may take Congressional involvement. He commented in the proposed pilot project grazing would be very important and if there was cheatgrass they had to have spring and fall grazing. John Carpenter stated research needed to be performed upon the 50% utilization rule. His opinion was they left too much grass to burn and that could be researched within the pilot project. He stated NDOW received a lot of funding within the Heritage Funds with the largest share coming from Elko County. John Carpenter suggested they amend the agreement with the Ruby Pipeline which gave NDOW $8 million dollars wherein a specific amount of the funding received should be spent within Elko County. He felt the County should have some control over how that money was to be spent. John Carpenter noted Washoe County s portion of that money was utilized to purchase the Winnemucca Ranch which did not have sage grouse so there was no beneficial effect upon the sage grouse. He recommended they contact the other counties and suggest they develop their own plans or join in Elko County s plan for a broader base. John Carpenter stated they have been doing habitat improvement for years by fencing springs, planting alfalfa, etc. He stated the BLM came up with an Interim Management Plan which had punitive regulations. PAGE 10

11 Commissioner Russell noted other counties listen to Elko County and suggested they inform the Governor of their plan and they could build to it by incorporating agency participation. He stated the pilot project was a great idea and encouraged them to solicit more support. 3:38:16 PM RECESS: Chairman Dahl called a recess at 3:38 p.m. 3:52:33 PM RECONVENE: Commissioner Dahl reconvened the meeting at 3:52 p.m. and commented Commissioner Williams had gone home ill. Mike Laughlin stated in 1973 he came to Elko County to run the Animal Damage Control (ADC) program under the US Fish and Wildlife Service and by that time he had 31 years with the US FWS in nine states. He was to start a non toxic program with El Aero hunting coyotes. Mike Laughlin explained in 1972 toxins were banned for animal damage control under President Nixon. He understood at that time Elko County had the largest grazing BLM District within the United States. Mike Laughlin stated there were 47,000 head of sheep in the Ruby Mountains and there were no fires. He was told by the Basque sheepherders that there were no fires because there were too many sheep and cows upon the cheatgrass. Mike Laughlin commented upon the amount of sage grouse at that time. He noted after the Silent Spring book was written the environmental tide swayed and predation declined. He stated at that time ravens were not on the list and there were not as many ravens as you see today. Mike Laughlin explained the ravens were put on the list through a treaty with Mexico. He stated ravens were egg eaters and birds nesting in Elko were at risk. Mike Laughlin started a research project when he found ravens were collecting golf balls and found the ravens only selected a specific brand of golf balls which spoke of their intelligence. Mike Laughlin questioned how they count the sage grouse and did not think numbers had anything to do with it. He believed it would be a political decision. Mike Laughlin understood it was to be based upon habitat. He stated they talk about fragmentation of habitat as the biggest issue and that would have an impact upon the mining. Mike Laughlin was a local resident and traveled the around the County and suggested they do something with the raven situation. He stated it had to be taken off the international list because raven control was difficult because the bird was intelligent. He commented NDOW would receive funding if the sage grouse was put on the list. He stated they need to get an ear of the Governor. Mike Laughlin commented the BLM referred to NDOW. Mike Laughlin suggested a coalition go to the Governor to do something. PAGE 11

12 Commissioner Dahl inquired if it could be shown that the language of the Endangered Species Act said the bird was not justified to be listed and County could demonstrate that to the Governor and to the newspaper that they don t have to react to the threat. He agreed funding had driven these actions. Mike Laughlin suggested they encourage the NDOW people to coordinate with the County. He commented upon the difficulties to secure Heritage Funds for raven control. Commissioner Dahl commented they need to verify the numbers and they would ask that question at the Governor s Sage Grouse Committee s meeting. Mike Laughlin stated the people making the decisions were not the local agency representatives. Mike Laughlin stated with the decline of the sheep industry in Nevada so did the population of the sage grouse and there were more fires. Mike Laughlin stated when he was performing predator control from the air he observed lots of wildlife. He stated now the agencies say the habitat has to be fragmented. He commented upon the poor condition of the trails in the Ruby Mountains because of the overgrowth. Mike Laughlin stated from 1973 the grazing had declined and the game numbers had also diminished in Elko County. He stated 2/3 of the upland game was located within the County of Elko. Commissioner Myers agreed they had to get to the Governor. He stated NDOW was presently controlling the committee because the people sitting on the committee were politicians or staff at some level who did not have sufficient information. Commissioner Dahl stated the committee wants to come up with an answer and felt they should challenge those numbers. Commissioner Myers questioned if they would dance around that answer. Mike Laughlin stated Pat Laughlin had previously received Heritage Funding. He recommended that the County apply for Heritage Funding to protect the sage grouse using DCR 1399 which was registered for this type of predator control. Mike Laughlin stated their application would go before the full Fish and Game Commission. Commissioner Myers stated the County Commission had approved applying for that funding during their last meeting. Mike Laughlin stated they may be turned down but the County Commission would go on record as submitting an application for that fund. He explained predator control was funded either through the Heritage Funding or the license sales. His opinion was NDOW was not spending sufficient money on predator control. Commissioner Guttry stated it was obvious that predator control was a factor in sage grouse populations. Commissioner Myers noted they will not accept the ranchers or locals knowledge on the predator s impact upon the sage PAGE 12

13 grouse population. Commissioner Guttry inquired if the County could apply for a permit and pay for the predator control. Mike Laughlin replied yes, the County could match funding. He stated Mark Jensen ran that cooperative program. Mike Laughlin stated if the County permit was approved the federal agency would issue the permit to Mark Jensen, USDA Wildlife Service and he would provide the man, equipment and chemicals. Commissioner Guttry suggested giving funding to Mark Jensen to target areas in Elko County that have high sage grouse populations. Mike Laughlin noted Ken Mayer took money from Paul Laughlin s funding in Elko County to be used in other areas for predator control. Mike Laughlin said the Governor had to be involved in this program. He suggested the County send in a request for Heritage money from Elko County as an entity. He stated the Elko County could go to Mark Jensen and put up some money. Michael Laughlin stated predator control should include coyotes, badgers as well as raven. John Carpenter agreed they should apply for funding because then they would have an argument to go to the Governor. He supported the County allocating money towards predator control. 4:17:54 PM Jeff White, Newmont Mine, commented that he had worked in the sage grouse issue since 1989 and did not pretend to understand it. He stated to develop a viable, effective plan the effort must include the right participants and it needed to be collaborative in that approach. He stated within the permitting of mine business on the Carlin Trend they continue to identify mule deer related issues. He and Andy Cole, representing Barrick Gold Mine, met with the agencies and plead the case that they need to stop looking at mule deer on a landscape basis. Jeff White stated they mitigated through lengthy discussions and formed a partnership with NDOW and the BLM to set up guidelines which ended up being a multi-year process. Jeff White suggested that the County actively engages as a cooperator within the NEPA analysis for the Resource Management Plan amendments. He stated it would be beneficial to participate as a cooperating agency because it gives the County an opportunity to champion their Elko County Plan as a viable alternative subject to the NEPA analysis or as a stand-alone component of another alternative. Jeff White stated they had a good information base in Elko County and across Nevada from Govern Guinn s Sage Grouse Task Force documentation. Jeff White stated there were many local working group plans as well as the plan from the Northern Nevada Stewardship Group. He stated those were good starting places for their County plan. Jeff White stated there was a lot of information, they have a lot of ideas and encouraged them to build upon what there was existing. Jeff White noted in their life times they have seen changes in the sage brush/grass ecosystems such PAGE 13

14 as massive type of conversions from sage brush/perennial grass plant communities to annual grass communities. They have lost biological diversity, lost resilience and lost reliable productivity. Jeff White stated they have an opportunity with this planning effort to address the landscape as well as the species. Commissioner Dahl inquired if Jeff White thought they should address the numbers through the language of the act or just address the habitat. Jeff White inquired if he was speaking to the minimum viable population argument or actual numbers. Commissioner Dahl stated specifically to the language in the ESA and where the species has to be considered as threatened or endangered. Jeff White stated it was his opinion that was an important component but it was a distractive component and they have a lot of work to do within a couple of years. He stated Grant Gerber s pilot project had a lot of appeal. Commissioner Guttry agreed they had lost their perennial grass through the fires over the years. Commissioner Guttry noted the Northeastern Nevada Stewardship Group did lots of work on sage grouse and requested information from him and the Stewardship Group that could address those basic issues. Jeff White believed that could be provided. Jeff White stated there was a creation of surrogate leks from surface coal mining and select hard rock mining activities. He stated when those mining activities had impacted leks it had been mitigated through the creation of surrogate leks. Cliff Gardner, Rural Heritage Preservation Project, stated they have been working on documents for several weeks which gave a summation of the history of the Sheldon Wildlife and Hart Mountain Wildlife Refuges. He stated cheatgrass was in every western state by Cliff Gardner stated in Hart Mountain records in 1938 and 1939 they introduced big horn sheep from British Columbia in the Hart Mountain Wildlife Refuge. He commented Mr. Moyle Jacobs followed the big horn sheep and kept notes of what was happening on the ground with the big horn sheep, sage grouse, the antelope and the grasses including cheatgrass. Cliff Gardner had heard from the rangers that cheatgrass came in before the native grasses but cheatgrass was formally known as June grass because that was when it produced a lot of grass. Cliff Gardner commented the federal agencies were not on the ground and did not have the common sense gained from practical observation. He commented they leave too much stubble now so it takes more effort for the deer to get to the green grass in the spring. Cliff Gardner supported Commissioner Dahl s idea to challenge the numbers. He believed the refuge s records provided the best history because PAGE 14

15 they kept explicit records. Cliff Gardner stated the refuges records showed what the levels of the wildlife were because of the predator control in the 1930 s and 1940 s compared to what they were today. He stated they argue with NDOW and the federal agencies because their current data does not correlate with what was on the ground at present. Cliff Gardner commented the past records reflected the abundance of sage grouse but today upon the refuges under federal control the sage grouse production had decreased. Cliff Gardner suggested there be more study of the current population. He commented the 7S Ranch was the biggest in the County and grazed into the Wilderness Areas and there was grazing over Stag Mountain. He was informed that sage grouse was in abundance when there was grazing but currently there were no sage grouse on Stag Mountain. Cliff Gardner stated in North Ruby Valley were there was no government influence on a large portion of the land and the Secret Pass Outfitters reported they say large numbers of sage grouse upon the private grounds. He stated a year ago he promoted a study be performed by the 4-H and FFA Clubs upon sage grouse production on the Mary s River that was now under federal control. He commented there was a 14,000 acre enclosure on Mary s River where there had been no cattle for sixteen years. Cliff Gardner stated the past records could be compared to the current production on the ground. He noted the federal agencies were gradually reducing the grazing over the last fifty years in the management of the range and there had been a decrease of wildlife but the private sector of ranching, mining, etc. was being blamed. He commented the federal agencies had reduced the grazing within the Toiyabe Forest from 42 permittees to 7 permittees which had impacted the economics. Cliff Gardner stated the US Fish and Wildlife Service were responsible for the preservation of the sage grouse and it was the same agency which was managing the wildlife refuges. He suggested the County challenge the US Fish and Wildlife to implement their the federal management upon the wildlife refuges such as removal of roads, removal of fences, taking out the power lines to demonstrate that would improve the sage grouse population. He cautioned the federal agencies would destroy the County s economic viability and wildlife population if they implement their plan on the public lands. He commented the citizens were concerned about the sage grouse and were asking for due process. He noted the County had the responsibility for the public health and safety of its citizens. Cliff Gardner stated under the NEPA process the County was given authority to improve the sage grouse habitat. He recommended that they base it upon sound science. 4:46:59 PM Ken Miller, Elko BLM District Manager, stated this was a Northeastern Nevada issue and an Elko County issue and suggested they should address the PAGE 15

16 issue together. Ken Miller agreed with Jeff White they should make the plan cooperative and not distractive. Ken Miller stated the Elko BLM could put together documents that would withstand scrutiny and withstand court challenges. Commissioner Dahl commented there were BLM documents that said the China Mountain Wind Turbine Project should be delayed. Ken Miller stated the China Mountain Project had never gone to Record of Decision and the draft EIS was out. Ken Miller stated that the Record of Decision was held up pending completion of this process. He noted the BLM and Ruby Pipeline mitigated the sage grouse leks by putting the project on hold for two months during the breeding season but the project was completed. Ken Miller stated Nevada BLM s intent was to develop a plan that would be land use plan amending that would allow them to keep from going to court and taking appropriate actions to keep the bird from being listed. Commissioner Dahl commented the BLM Interim Management Policies came out with no opportunity for appeal or public comment. Ken Miller stated Elko County could work with the BLM as a cooperating agency or develop its own plan. He stated working with Elko County under cooperating agency status did matter. Ken Miller had expressed concern to the State Director on how to use the cooperating agency input and how it was displayed in the decision. He stated they incorporate the Elko County information into their decisions. Ken Miller stated Elko BLM would argue that Elko County or any other cooperating agency s input would get heard in some fashion. Commissioner Guttry noted the prior board was told to become cooperating agency with the Forest Service and every suggestion made by the County was good science based suggestions and common sense suggestions which were not considered and they were totally ignored. Ken Miller cautioned they only had two years and there was a sense of urgency. Commissioner Dahl questioned the necessity of doing the planning because of the verbiage of the Endangered Species Act and the lack of justification of the numbers of the sage grouse. Quinton Barr stated most of the controversies boiled down to philosophy. He stated one group of people with preservationist philosophy had a built in assumption that anything man does was contrary to preserving all things natural. He stated the group s decision space was between what existed today and where the noble philosophy of preservation wants them to ultimately end up. Quinton Barr stated this group wants to eliminate any alternative philosophy PAGE 16

17 where you go back to the past when economics had more importance and providing for the needs of humans was not within their decision space. Quinton Barr stated this group does not want to go back to higher grazing levels or predator control within the decision space. He stated if the decision space was limited by the preservationists group then all the collaborative processes would move in the direction of the preservationist s agenda. Quinton Barr stated if past practices were better for the sage grouse and there was nothing immoral or lacking in nobility then they should move in that direction that allows for more room in the decision space. Commissioner Dahl questioned if the ESA says under these conditions you can list a bird and the County was not even close to those conditions, why were they talking about the habitat for the bird rather than discussing the ESA. He felt this should be in the Courts. Quinton Barr said at the beginning of the BLM Resource Management Plan Amendment Process they claimed the reason for undertaking this effort was to prevent the sage grouse from being listed. He stated they were claiming on one hand the sage grouse was in peril under the Endangered Species Act and on the other hand listing it under the ESA would require lots of regulatory actions over 54 million acres in eleven states. Quinton Barr asked if the bird was so rare how it could affect such a huge area of land. He stated that was what prompted him to dig in depth into the US Fish and Wildlife Service findings and uncover the inconsistencies. Quinton Barr questioned if the bird really warranted a closer look under the ESA, then how could they tell them to look at the numbers to see if there was sufficient genetic diversity to protect the bird from extinction under the ESA. He stated they were being told the bird was on the verge of being listed and they could no longer question whether that determination was correct. Quinton Barr stated given that fact they must take some sort of action to conserve the bird under the teeth of the ESA. He stated if people want to conserve the bird the driver should not be the teeth of the ESA because the bird does not legally qualify under the definition of that Act. Quinton Barr stated the motivation should be something else and the mechanisms to accomplish conservation should be something else. Commissioner Myers noted they continue to hunt the bird. Cliff Gardner stated if it was not the sage grouse it would be some other species. He stated the County should bring the argument that they all want more birds and it was an indicator species for the health of the fauna. Cliff Gardner stated the ESA demands that they determine if the species was endangered and then they identify the cause. Cliff Gardner stated the cause was bureaucratic policy and encouraged the County to develop their plan. He stated the federal PAGE 17

18 agencies had the responsibility for years and the birds were still decreasing. Cliff Gardner recommended the County take a bigger role and the federal agencies follow the County s lead. He did not suggest violating the law but they should get the absolute truth. Commissioner Guttry noted Ken Miller had stated they did not want to end up in court and questioned if the BLM did not want to defend themselves against an environmentalists group or with other proponents that could not do a project. He understood the BLM did not want to be in court defending themselves against the environmentalists. Ken Miller stated the BLM did not want to end up in Court because people were just as passionate on the other side. Ken Miller stated the BLM looks at multiple uses and sometimes a proposal cannot go forward and they try to identify those before they get into the EIS process. Ken Miller stated once it was in the EIS process they try to work with stakeholders to get somewhere under the multiple use. He hoped to see multiple uses function without more meetings and documentation. Grant Gerber commented the BLM did not cooperate with the County. He stated they heard on December 23 rd the Interim Management Policy would be put out and on December 27 th that policy went into place without notice and without public hearings. Grant Gerber stated when the BLM came down with the draconian approach on the 60,000 acres of oil & gas leases and the China Mountain Project there was no notice and no hearings. He stated the BLM wants the County to be cooperative but the BLM were not always cooperative. Commissioner Dahl commented upon the outcome of the Travel Management Plan and his support of the American Lands Council which advocate for the States to take over the management of the public lands. Ken Miller stated the number of decisions made by the BLM within a year was impressive. Commissioner Dahl commented one of those decisions cost the County over $8 million dollars in tax revenue which was significant to Elko County. He stated approximately 60,000 acres of land was taken out of oil and gas exploration from Elko County with no opportunity to comment or to appeal. Ken Miller stated they have to make decisions upon federal land and suggested that they cooperate. He noted before the Interim Management Policy was upon the street he had told them the BLM was already doing those measures. He stated in the past they had periodically suspended oil and gas leases over the last twenty years. He stated eventually those get settled and get leased and that decision was not abnormal. Commissioner Dahl commented the agencies were now the three branches of government all rolled into one. He stated they were legislative because they PAGE 18

19 were making the rules; they were the executive because they administer and enforce the rules and they were the judicial because if someone does not like the rule and has the opportunity to appeal they appeal to the agency. Commissioner Dahl noted Jeannie Higgins had attended their meeting regarding the Travel Management Plan and the County submitted their comments to her. Now the Record of Decision was final, and Jeannie Higgins was the person they have to appeal it to. 5:15:57 PM Randy Brown asked for direction in developing the plan. Commissioner Dahl requested that he research into applying for a raven permit. Commissioner Myers had information on who to apply to for Heritage Funding through Mark Jensen the State Director for Wildlife Services. Commissioner Dahl noted John Carpenter had stated the money from the Ruby Pipeline settlement to be spent in Elko County should be spent on sage grouse within Elko County. Randy Brown would research that. He was also researching who make the ruling on the habitat. Commissioner Dahl suggested Humboldt, Lander, White Pine and Eureka counties be asked to join them. 5:18:30 PM Commissioner Dahl relinquished the meeting to Vice Chairman Guttry. III. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND COUNTY STAFF COMMENTS: Commissioner Russell commented upon President Obama s interest in books by Saul Alinsky and perhaps using Alinsky s approach to moving the Governor to be more interested in sage grouse. Commissioner Myers noted they have lots of information but they had to determine the direction they wanted to go in. Commissioner Dahl stressed taking a strong stand and questioning the number issue. Commissioner Myers supported challenging their information at the Commissioner meeting and through the press. He stated they need to make sure their County stance was defendable. Commissioner Guttry thanked everyone for contributing to the meeting. 5:23:28 PM IV. 5:23:32 PM COMMENTS BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC: There was no public comment. PAGE 19