Meeting with representatives of the fishkeeping community Wednesday, July am 2pm Room D, Defra, Nobel House, London

Transcription

1 Meeting with representatives of the fishkeeping community Wednesday, July am 2pm Room D, Defra, Nobel House, London Present: Ruth McDonald, Tropical Fishkeeping UK/British Cichlid Association Pauline Davey, Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association (OATA) PR & Parliamentary Officer Chris Webb, Anabantoid Association of Great Britain Kevin Webb, Anabantoid Association of Great Britain Peter Burgess, Aquatics Consultancy Ian Watson, Catfish Study Group, British Cichlid Association Darren Hepple, Crouch Valley Koi Section Nathan Hill, Practical Fishkeeping magazine Dick Mills Fedeation of British Aquatic Societies Mick Agnew, British Killifish Association Milena Harrison, Defra Chris Cheswright, Southend Leigh and District Aquarist Society Steve Elliott, Federation of British Aquatic Societies, IKGH Yvonne Ball, Animal Health & Welfare Board England (AHWBE) Peter Scott, Companion Animal Sector Council (CASC) Dominic Whitmee, OATA CEO Chris Newman, Reptile & Exotic Pet Trade Association (REPTA) & Federation of British Herpetologists (FBH) Introducing OATA s strategic vision Dominic Whitmee introduced OATA s strategic vision (see page 3 in the accompanying presentation). He also explained that whilst OATA s role as a trade association is to represent industry, not the hobby, the industry and fishkeeping community are intrinsically linked each cannot exist without the other. This was the reason behind this meeting because it was important that the hobby community is aware of the issues facing the industry which inevitably affect fish-keepers. OATA also needs to hear views from the hobby community to ensure it has the full picture when it consults with government. OATA does have a lobbying influence within Govt departments to highlight issues and point out where change is needed. Its aim is to have a proper conversation on what good legislation looks like. Peter Scott explained that the Companion Animal Sector Council (CASC) was set up at Defra s request to bring together interested organisations for the whole companion animal sector (from fish to birds and small furries). It also feeds views into the Animal Health and Welfare Board England, an advisory group is made up of independent experts whose role is to give independent advice direct to Defra on related issues. A query was raised about the import licenses that fishkeepers who import fish into the UK need. It was explained that CEFAS (A government agency looking at fish science and technology) drives disease advice to Defra which ultimately affects people s ability to import fish into the UK. Darren Hepple raised a query that affects the koi community in particular about selling on fish that do not come up to show standards. Mick Agnew raised issues about importing new species into the UK which was important for scientific study and conservation. Peter Scott explained that CASC is the body that could take the

2 issues surrounding this to Government departments and he asked Mick to him more about the issue and what effect it is having. ACTION: Mick Agnew to Peter Scott. EU & UK initiatives and their potential impact on the hobby 1: Positive lists Dominic introduced the issues around positive lists (see page 4 of the presentation). Positive lists are being promoted by animal rights groups across Europe and also in Wales and Scotland which have devolved powers on animal welfare issues. A positive list outlines the species that can be kept as pets or traded (rather than a negative list that includes species that cannot be kept or traded which then infers everything else can be). The problem with positive lists is that they are often very limiting. Both Belgium and the Netherlands have a positive list for mammals, both of which are very restrictive. OATA s position is that the solution is not to ban species from trade but to have good standards for sale, good enforcement and education about responsible ownership. The animal rights lobby in Europe is very big far larger than the pet trade representation. Examples include Eurogroup for Animals which is an umbrella organisation bringing together 42 organisations in Europe and ENDCAP which seeks to end the captivity of wild animals. There was discussion around how this could affect fishkeeping hobby groups. Comments made included: Fish collectors collect endangered species and bring them into the hobby and the scientific community to study. Some species will be wiped out and become extinct in the wild due to changes in habitats, with the only remaining specimens in private hobby collections. Fishkeeping groups understand the habitats of the species they keep. Hobby groups are important for sharing information to beginner fishkeepers members often have an aspiration to become a better fishkeeper and improve their collections Turtles (pond sliders) are a good example of how a ban can decimate a hobby. Now harder to keep species are now on sale that might be more of an issue than pond sliders so the fishkeeping hobby needs to learn lessons from this example. Peter Scott asked the groups to him businesses cases he needs good examples of where issues among hobby groups could have a greater effect such as the importing of new species by fish collectors. He is also interested in examples where specialist hobby societies are involved in work conserving endangered species, particularly on species that have been made extinct and why. ACTION: Hobby groups to compile and examples to Peter Scott at CASC. 2: EU Invasive Alien Species Regulation Dominic introduced the Regulation and outlined that the principle behind it which is an important and entirely justifiable one for the UK ie to protect biosecurity. However, OATA s concern is the implementation of the Regulation. This is taking a European wide perspective rather than looking at regional controls for problem species, which the Regulation does allow for. Dominic showed a slide outlining all the species currently banned by the EU by this Regulation with those species that affect the ornamental aquatic industry highlighted in red (see page 6 of the presentation). The aquatics industry seems disproportionately targeted so far, largely with plants,

3 but we know that the next list to be considered does include ornamental fish (see page 5 of the presentation). There is a lot of confusion about where to find a definitive list of banned species within the UK because some come under this Regulation and others come under different laws (eg apple snails). Chris Newman told the meeting he had taken on the task of trying to compile this definitive list but has been struggling to find all the information and even when he has asked Defra officials they cannot confirm. The next list being considered does feature fish including Channa. Currently Channa argus is banned (which OATA acknowledges does have the potential to be invasive) but all other Channa are due to be included in a ban. This seems an over-reaction for most Channa species which are tropical or subtropical and thus could not survive in the UK. Christine and Kevin of the AAGB raised concerns with the Channa proposal because their members keep many of these species. Christine told the meeting she has had discussions with a scientist at the Natural History Museum about this issue who has also expressed concern. Dominic said he was very interested to hear about this particular work by hobby groups and to hear the comments put forward by this scientist. ACTION: Christine Webb to forward Natural History Museum comments to Dominic at OATA. Peter Scott made the point that all fishkeeping hobby groups can make their views known on the proposals for the next review by ing him at CASC and he would feed these comments into the consultation. He is particularly interested in information about what keepers on the ground are doing to conserve and promote the particular fish species under threat of a ban. Practical examples are very helpful eg the work with the Natural History Museum to demonstrate that a blanket ban could have far-reaching consequences that perhaps are not fully understood by the EU. This is where hobby groups have a powerful role to play because only they know the work being done by their members. Hobby groups therefore have an important role in communicating these issues to their members and calling on them to make their voice heard in the process. Christine s example also shows that hobby groups have an important role in highlight the issue to a wider audience through their network of contacts, who can then also lobby. The more voices particularly from renowned organisations like the Natural History Museum that are added to the consultation the better. ACTION: AAGB to pull together info on its work with this species and the effect a ban would had and to Peter Scott at CASC & OATA. Other hobby groups to do the same if the species affect their members. A question was asked about whether the ornamental aquatics industry was being seen a soft target in comparison to the angling community whose species don t seem to feature? Peter Scott outlined some examples he had heard where there are crackdowns on angling lakes but gathering evidence was difficult. Ruth McDonald said the hobby needs to be as vocal as the antis. They know the conservation work being done and they need to get better at shouting about these stories. 3. Defra s review of animal establishment licensing in England Dominic outlined the history of pet shop licensing and the issue facing the hobby now with the review in England currently underway (see page 7 of the presentation). Under the Pet Animals Act 1951 there is an exemption for people selling the progeny of their own pets but this is due to disappear under the current review. There are different interpretations of this by local authorities. The pet industry has pushed for a long time for mandatory standards on commercially traded

4 animals. The current review looks like it will bring this in which is welcome but the issue is now what is meant by commercial because this could have an effect on hobbyists and hobby groups (see page 8 of the presentation). There is not a lot of time to get the details right because legislation is due to come into force in April 2018 and our concern is that at the moment any hobby breeder who sells would be seen as commercial and would need a licence. The focus is largely to tackle the issue of dogs and cats and from OATA s conversations with Defra the dept does recognise this would have unintended consequences for other species such as fish. OATA is currently working to help Defra come up with a definition of commercial and what would fall in and out of scope of the legislation (see page 8 of the presentation). OATA is particularly interested in hearing from hobby groups about the proposed exclusions Various hobby group reps raised the issue of selling at their shows and the issues around whether a pet shop license is needed. Damien Hepple explained the British Koi Association have a very particular issue because their members do not breed and sell their own fish but buy in a number of fish to bring on to show standard with excess stock then sold at their shows but this raises the issue of pet shop licences. He suggested an easy solution would be for pet shops to be able to apply for a temporary licence (like premises that sell alcohol can do) to cover a show. There was some discussion on this point and both Peter Scott and Chris Newman said this had been suggested many times to Defra but the department is not willing to extend pet shop licences in this way so there is little point continuing to ask for this if we know they will say no. It is also a particular issue around koi but not for other hobby groups where people are selling their own fish s progeny. Christine Webb outlined the AAGB s concern that getting a licence for its shows would be catastrophic. They have 2 shows a year which are cost neutral and even a 100 bill for a licence would be very damaging. The shows play an important part in sharing knowledge great for new fish-keepers and the auctions are also an important element of the show. Steve Elliott said he had been told by his local authority that he needs a licence to sell even one pair of fancy guppies. However, once he has that licence he then uses this to offset his costs for raising guppies against his tax so it does have benefits for him. Several people raised the issue of qualifications and how the ones they need for a licence do not include much on fish. Dominic said this was something OATA was raising with Defra. ACTION: Please see exclusions proposed to the commercial inclusion on page 8 of the presentation. Do hobby groups have any other comments about these exclusions? Are there any other concerns about this issue from hobby groups? Please Dominic at OATA ASAP. 4. Initiatives to tackle wildlife trafficking Dominic outlined the work OATA is doing about illegal and unlicensed trade (see page 9 of the presentation). This is work done on top of the lobbying work for the industry. This includes a project where OATA has a programme which crawls a number of selling sites to pull off fish related sales. These are being examined to see if there are issues eg illegal species or unlicensed sellers - too many sales by one person. Ian Watson raised a point to look out for sellers who appear to be in UK but where items are dispatched from outside the EU. OATA is also working on a partnership approach with the National Wildlife Crime Unit to create a route to report illegal and unlicensed trade. Damien Hepple (who is a Wildlife Liaison police officer) said reports to NWCU would be sent to local wildlife liaison officers such as himself. What would be

5 really useful for these officers is to have a list of experts they can ask for help about particular species. Is this something that OATA could provide? ACTION: OATA to investigate. There was discussion about a registration scheme for sellers but the meeting was told that Defra is not keen on this. Another suggestion was OATA compiling a list of rogue traders like trading standards based on numbers of complaints but there are issues about having a public list. Mick Agnew again raised the issue of how difficult it is for fish collectors who are legitimately collecting new species for conservation and scientific study to get them into the UK. He collects in East Africa and it is impossible to get movement documents from Africa. Peter Scott again outlined that CEFAS has the remit of limiting movements because of the risk of disease but to make the case in an to Peter and he will feed it in to Defra. The Pet Portal and draft fish-keeping guidance document Dominic outlined the work OATA is doing in the area of responsible ownership which is a key message for the association. It is working on a fishkeeping guidance document at the behest of Animal Health and Welfare Board. Such documents were supposed to be written for all companion animals. Chris Newman has done one for reptiles and OATA has created a draft document aimed at beginner fish-keepers. The document covers a basic introduction to fishkeeping and is underpinned by more detailed information in the form of care sheets covering disease, water quality and setting up a tank. There is a lot of material for beginner fish-keepers groups probably produce a lot themselves. But the Government is keen on something that has been endorsed by a number of reputable organisations from vets to hobby groups. OATA is asking for comments from hobby groups on the proposed document and an indication of whether each group is willing to formally endorse the document when it is produced. This would mean an acknowledgement on the document. ACTION: Hobby group representatives to give comments on the draft and an indication of whether you would endorse it to Dominic ASAP. The document will then feature on the new Pet Portal which has been created by the Pet Charity. This has been created to feature information that has been through a system of endorsement from a number of organisations to create a one-stop shop for good information for pet owners. Within the fish section it is intended to signpost pet owners to other relevant sources of help and information eg hobby groups. Peter Scott made the point that hobby groups can be a source of good information for beginner fishkeepers and he hoped hobby groups would consider linking to the Pet Portal from their sites. Ruth McDonald made the point that there literacy issues among adults so word based publications are not always the best way to get information across. Dominic acknowledged this noting OATA s draft was a starting point. Ruth also asked about livefeeding it s difficult to get accurate information about this and if it is against the law. Peter Scott said it was not against the law but not advisable. Chris Newman said there had been one prosecution by the RSPCA concerning this.

6 Open forum discussion Peter Scott invited people to raise any issues they wanted to. Peter Burgess raised the issue of big fish and if OATA can encourage the trade not to sell unsuitable species such as Nile catfish. Dominic said he was aware of the Big Fish campaign. Peter Scott asked if OATA produced a list of fish species that the industry should not sell. ACTION: Dominic to investigate. It was asked which body can people report shops which sell these species. Dominic said if they are OATA members you can report to OATA. Other issues about shops were they are not clear about the size of fish when fully grown, they don t give the correct information on whether the fish they sell will be happy in local tap water, and the selling of mutilated/tattooed fish. ACTION: OATA to remind members about its position statement. Peter Scott asked if attendees would find it useful to meet regularly. Christine Webb said she thought there needed to be clear aims and objectives for any meetings so that groups, which have limited funds, can demonstrate the value of going to the meeting to their committees. Dominic said he had seen this first meeting as a chance to meet, make connections and share concerns. The industry and therefore hobby is facing a period of great change in the next six months so it was decided to hold another meeting in six months but a good notice period should be given to enable groups to take advantage of cheaper fares. Yvonne Ball of Animal Health and Welfare Board England again reiterated that hobby groups can make their own businesses cases about any of the issues raised to CASC so that it can lobby on their behalf. She also asked if there are any particular issues around medications and anti-microbials for the ornamental fish industry. Peter Scott said not for this sector Peter Scott concluded by saying that industry and the hobby had to join together to show to Defra that we own the issues facing us and do act responsibly. We re not just sucking in fish, killing them and then buying more. ACTION: OATA and CASC to set the next meeting date and circulate. Meeting closed at 2pm.