Improving the Visibility of Manual Traffic Controllers Trials 2016

Transcription

1 ` Improving the Visibility of Manual Traffic Controllers Trials 2016

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3 ` Improving the Visibility of Manual Traffic Controllers Trials 2016 Prepared By Jeff Kaye Fulton Hogan National Safety Training Manager Corporate Office 159 Sir William Pickering Drive PO Box Christchurch, New Zealand Telephone: Facsimile: Date: 29 July 2016 Reference: P:/Jeff Kaye/TTM Issues/Working with Live Traffic/MTC Trials/Final Report MTC Yellow Sleeve Trials. doc Status: Final

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5 Contents EXECUTIVE SUMMARY BACKGROUND TO THE PROJECT. 1 DISCUSSION. 2 TRIAL METHODOLOGY....2 APPENDICES Appendix A Appendix B Appendix C Sub Appendix B and C Appendix D Appendix E Appendix F NZTA Project Brief Showing Trial Site Set Up Showing Alternative Trial Site Set Up Showing the Exact Layout Detail Adjacent to the MTC Position Details of Standard Form Used for the Trials Details of Standard Road User Response Form Trial Results i

6 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY Fulton Hogan was commissioned by NZTA National Office to undertake a series of trials across New Zealand, the aim of which was to test alternative clothing (safety garments with lime green / yellow sleeves) for Manual Traffic Controllers (MTC s) which may improve the visibility of the MTC for road users. Over many years anecdotal evidence suggested that MTC s with red/ orange fluorescent safety garments were not readily seen by road users because they blended in with the orange delineation and equipment at use on roadwork sites. The methodology used for the trials was agreed by NZTA National Office and Fulton Hogan, with the sites being chosen across New Zealand and with speeds between 50 km/h and 100km/h. The conclusions from trials of the safety garments with lime green / yellow sleeves for MTC s showed: (a) 7 to 10 % of vehicles were observed to stop 5m sooner in advance of the MTC when they are wearing lime green / yellow sleeves instead of the red / orange sleeves. This is a small but worthwhile improvement. (b) Almost no motorists were able to identify that the MTC had a different garment to normal. (c) Even when motorist s attention was drawn to the lime green / yellow sleeves on the MTC, most did not consider that the lime green / yellow sleeves provided greater visibility for the MTC. While not a focus of the trial, a general view of staff involved in the trials was that implementation of CoPTTM compliant TTM for MTC sites remains the most important factor in the safety of MTC operations. The recommendations from this trial would be that: (a) MTC s be permitted, as an option, to wear safety garments with lime green / yellow sleeves while undertaking Stop / Go / Slow operations at MTC sites. (b) That Contractor s must take greater care to follow the CoPTTM requirements exactly for MTC operations. BACKGROUND TO THE PROJECT Following discussions with NZTA National Office, National Traffic and Safety Manager, it was decided that Fulton Hogan would conduct trials of different coloured Safety Garments for Manual Traffic Controllers (MTC s). These trials took place initially in the Northland, Nelson and Marlborough Regions with Auckland and Canterbury undertaking the trials also at a later date. It was important that the trials followed a strict methodology and the following report details these requirements. Over a number of years there have been a number of anecdotal reports suggesting that MTC s have not been seen because their red / orange fluorescent safety garments blend in with the orange delineation and equipment that is in use at the roadwork site. An application was made to NZTA suggesting that the use of orange vests with long lime green /yellow fluorescent sleeves would improve this situation. NZTA, while appreciating the importance of the issue, suggested that a trial(s) be undertaken to determine the effectiveness or otherwise of the enhanced garments, and in particular from a road user perspective. 6

7 DISCUSSION 1. There has been some observation of MTC s in the past and in a number of cases drivers have gone past the MTC Stop sign because of all or some of the following: a. the sign has been left in a cone and the MTC is standing away from it, b. the threshold in advance of the MTC has not been well setup and the required number of cones are not used, so there is no or reduced side friction, c. the MTC has been operating within the taper closure, not before the taper. 2. To ensure that the trials were robust the trial methodology detailed below was used. This methodology was established in conjunction with Stuart Fraser of NZTA National Office and details can be found in Appendix A. Care was taken to ensure none of the faults detailed in paragraph 2 were present during the trials. It was never the intention that the use of yellow sleeve garments will compensate for sloppy and / or non-compliant on site practices. 3. For the trials to be meaningful, within each worksite setup, comparative tests need to be conducted using a MTC operating in an red / orange jacket with lime green / yellow long sleeves and a MTC in a standard red / orange jacket with long sleeves. TRIAL METHODOLOGY 1. Worksite. The trials were all undertaken on working sites, which conformed to a basic MTC set up as detailed in NZTA CoPTTM in C MTC s Layout Essentials. While the temporary speed limit installed at all sites was 30km/h, the trials were undertaken on roads with permanent posted speed limits of 50 to 100km/h. Note To ensure that MTC s did not enter live lanes, a cone was not placed in the live lane adjacent to the MTC position, either before or after the 1 st vehicle has stopped. See appendices B and C for additional information regarding the site layout. 2. Photographic Record. Photographs were taken from each direction showing the threshold treatment, taper and the MTC standing in the position from which they operated wearing each garment, red / orange sleeve and lime green / yellow sleeve, during the trials, fundamentally as a check on site compliance. 3. Measuring Stopping compliance. For the trials the sites were established with cones marking the logical stopping point (LSP) and points five metres either side. This outlined the range of the acceptable stopping zone. This is shown in diagrams included in Appendix B and Appendix C. 4. On site the logical stopping point (LSP) was identified and this position was marked on a cone. Marks on a cone or a small marker was also placed five metres either side of that logical stopping point. The purpose of this was to record where the approaching vehicle actually stopped and this information was recorded as: a. Position A before the stopping point but in the zone b. Position B at the LSP and within the zone c. Position C Past the zone, this position will also apply to vehicles that fail to stop and / or drive through. 7

8 5. Note: - No white limit lines were installed at any of the sites to mark the LSP or positions A or C. 6. The Operational Trials. The MTC s (one at each end of the site) firstly operated wearing a CoPTTM compliant red /orange hi-visibility garment with red / orange long sleeves. Only one end of the MTC operation was observed during the trial period and the stopping point of those vehicles was noted on the recording sheets shown in Appendices C and D along with other observations that were required. At the conclusion of this phase of the trial the MTC s changed into the trial garment with long lime green / yellow sleeves and the recording was repeated using the same end of the operation as was used for the first part of the trial. 7. Trial Observations. Each phase of the trial (with each safety garment worn by the MTC) was observed and recorded for 30 vehicles being stopped on the approach to the MTC position. The following Regions took part in the trial using these road types: a. Marlborough Region - Site #1 State Highway 6, 100km/h road, Site # 2 - Queen Charlotte Drive, 50km/h road and Site #3 State Highway 1, 100km/h road. b. Canterbury Region Site #1 Bridle Path Road, 50km/h road. c. Auckland Region Site #1 Waitakere Road, 80km/h road, Site #2 Northfield Road, 50km/h road and Site # 3 Waitakere Road, 80km/h road. d. Additional trials were carried out in Northland and Nelson, however results were incomplete, or the layouts were later identified as being non-compliant in terms of the agreed methodology. The results of these trials have not been used in this analysis. 8. Site Observation questions. In addition to the MTC s each site had an Observer. This person was located behind the cones on the left hand side of the road and was wearing standard orange PPC. Until such time as the first vehicle comes to a complete halt they stood well back and behind the line of the MTC. Once the vehicle had stopped they moved into position adjacent to the MTC to enable them to ask the following questions of the driver of each vehicle that is stopped. The questions are: a. Did you notice anything different at this site and b. Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible The responses for drivers were recorded on the forms in Appendix E. 8

9 9. Specific Site responses. These are shown in detail in Appendix F for each trial and each site with the following table being a summary by percentage of the observations recorded. Site / Location #1 Marlborough SH6 #2 Marlborough Queen Charlotte Drive #3 Marlborough SH1 #1 Canterbury Bridle Path Road #1 Auckland Waitakere Road #2 Auckland Northfield Road #3 Auckland - Waitakere Road Stopping Position Speed Limit With Sleeves Orange With sleeves Yellow Question(a) See above A B C A B C 100km/h 57% 43% 0% 67% 33% 0% 6% Yes - they worked in TTM 50km/h 70% 30% 0% 77% 23% 0% 0% 0% 100km/h 37% 53% 10% 47% 53% 0% 6% Yes - they worked in TTM 50km/h 53% 43% 4% **(1) 80km/h 70% 27% 3% (1) Question (b) See above 6% Yes - they worked in TTM 6% Yes - they worked in TTM 73% Yes *** 57% 43% 0% 4% Yes saw the yellow sleeves 80% 20% 0% 0% 30% yes - *** 50km/h 20% 80% 0% 27% 73% 0% 0% 20% yes - *** 80km/h 63% 37% 0% 73% 27% 0% 0% 37% yes - *** Notes ** Did not see the MTC *** This response was offered only after the road user had been told about the Yellow sleeves wore by the MTC. 10. Trial Conclusions. The following conclusions are developed from the trial results and from comments from the employees that were undertaking the testing. There was an improvement of between 7.0% and 10.0% with respect to the Stopping Position when the MTC was wearing the safety garment with the yellow sleeves. Vehicles were stopping earlier and further back from the Logical Stopping Position. This is a small but worthwhile improvement. 9

10 When the MTC was wearing the safety garment with yellow sleeves no vehicles stopped at or beyond Stop Position C. Almost no motorists were able to identify that the MTC had a different garment to normal when they were wearing the garment with lime green / yellow sleeves. Even when motorist s attention was drawn to the lime green / yellow sleeves being worn by the MTC, most did not consider that the lime green / yellow sleeves provided greater visibility for the MTC. While not a focus of the trial, a general view of the staff involved was that the implementation of CoPTTM compliant TTM for MTC sites remains the most important factor in improving safety for MTC operations. 11. Recommendations. That Fulton Hogan release the results of this series of trials to NZTA National Office, National Traffic and Safety Manager, with a recommendation that the CoPTTM Governance Group (CGG) consider allowing MTC s to wear fluorescent red / orange safety garments with fluorescent lime green / yellow long sleeves to make the MTC more visible to approaching road users. 10

11 PPENDIX A NZTA Project Brief 11

12 Hi Jeff, Just in case you haven t received my notes. I would like to view at least one running of the trial, if possible, if you could give me a heads up when it may be run, I will make my way to it. Regards Stuart Stuart Fraser Senior Traffic and Safety Engineer (COPTTM) DDI M E stuart.fraser@nzta.govt.nz From: Dave Rendall [mailto:dave.rendall@ama.nzta.govt.nz] Sent: Thursday, 7 May :02 a.m. To: Kaye, Jeff - FH Corporate (Jeff.Kaye@fultonhogan.com) Cc: Stuart Fraser Subject: MTC Coloured sleeve trial Hi Jeff I have spoken to Stuart Fraser, and he will: Courier the trial garments to you at FH Corporate (15 Sir William Pickering Drive, PO Box , Christchurch) Await your call to resolve the trial methodology prior to issuing instructions for the trials to our FH teams in Marlborough, East Coast and Northland. Note that he is in Nelson all week, next week, but is happy to discuss over the phone if you wish. As discussed, the key here is to get a clear and agreed trial and assessment methodology that provides clear guidance on what whether the outcome is successful or not. Regards Dave Rendall Fulton Hogan Ltd dave.rendall@fultonhogan.com Private Bag , Ellerslie, Auckland 1542 Mobile (+64) Web Find the latest transport news, information, and advice on our website: 12

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17 APPENDIX B Showing Trial Site Set Up 17

18 Stop Position C MTC MUST stand on the shoulder of the road between the 1 st and 2 nd cones 5.00m Logical Stopping Position (LSP) B 5.00m Stop Position A 18

19 APPENDIX C Showing Alternative Trial Site Set Up 19

20 Stop Position C MTC MUST stand on the shoulder of the road between the 1 st and 2 nd cones Logical Stopping Position (LSP) B 5.00m 5.00m Stop Position A 20

21 Sub APPENDIX B and C Showing the Exact Layout Detail adjacent to the MTC Position 21

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23 APPENDIX D Details of Standard Form Used for the Trials 23

24 Stopping Place Observation Recording Sheet Region:- Site Number:- Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Date of Observation:- With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position A B C Numbers of each road user Total With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position A B C Numbers of each road user Total 24

25 APPENDIX E Details of Standard Road User Response Form 25

26 Observation Question Recording Sheet Region:- Site Number:- Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Date of Observation:- Road User responses Observer Questions Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 26

27 APPENDIX F Trial Results 27

28 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- S H 6 R P 16 / Permanent Posted Speed:- 100km/h Date of Observation:- 9 th September 2015 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C 0 0 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C

29 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- S H 6 R P 16 / Permanent Posted Speed:- 100km/h Date of Observation:- 9 th September 2015 Road User responses Observer Questions Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No Didn t even notice 2 No Didn t even notice 3 No Didn t even notice 4 No Didn t even notice 5 No Didn t even notice 6 No Didn t even notice 7 No Didn t even notice 8 No Didn t even notice 9 No Didn t even notice 10 No Didn t even notice 11 No Didn t even notice 12 No Didn t even notice 13 No Didn t even notice 14 No Didn t even notice 15 No Didn t even notice 16 No Didn t even notice 17 No Didn t even notice 18 Yes Works for another Traffic Control Company and likes the idea. 19 No Didn t even notice 20 No Didn t even notice 29

30 Road User responses Observer Questions Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 21 No Didn t even notice 22 No Didn t even notice 23 Yes Yes it was something different that caught my eye 24 No Didn t even notice 25 No Didn t even notice 26 No Didn t even notice 27 No Didn t even notice 28 No Didn t even notice 29 No Didn t even notice 30 No Didn t even notice 30

31 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #2 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed: Queen Charlotte Drive 50km/h Date of Observation:- 29 th of October 2015 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B 9 9 C 0 0 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B 7 7 C

32 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #2 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed: Queen Charlotte Drive 50km/h Date of Observation:- 29 th October 2015 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No Didn t even notice 2 No Didn t even notice 3 No Didn t even notice 4 No Didn t even notice 5 No Didn t even notice 6 No Didn t even notice 7 No Didn t even notice 8 No Didn t even notice 9 No Didn t even notice 10 No Didn t even notice 11 No Didn t even notice 12 No Didn t even notice 13 No Didn t even notice 14 No Didn t even notice 15 No Didn t even notice 16 No Didn t even notice 17 No Didn t even notice 18 No Didn t even notice 19 No Didn t even notice 20 No Didn t even notice 32

33 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 21 No Didn t even notice 22 No Didn t even notice 23 No Didn t even notice 24 No Didn t even notice 25 No Didn t even notice 26 No Didn t even notice 27 No Didn t even notice 28 No Didn t even notice 29 No Didn t even notice 30 No Didn t even notice 33

34 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #3 Site Location:- S H 1 R P 0.00 / 8.32 Permanent Posted Speed:- 100km/h Date of Observation:- 19 th of January 2016 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C 3 3 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C

35 Region:- Marlborough Site Number:- #3 Site Location:- S H 1 R P 0.00 / 8.32 Permanent Posted Speed:- 100km/h Date of Observation:- 19 th of January 2016 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No Didn t even notice 2 Yes Works for another Traffic Control Company (HEB s) and likes the idea. 3 No Didn t even notice 4 No Didn t even notice 5 No Didn t even notice 6 Yes Works for another Traffic Control Company (HEB s) and likes the idea 7 Yes two people standing at the Stop / Go Paddle Didn t even notice 8 No Didn t even notice 9 No Didn t even notice 10 No Didn t even notice 11 No Didn t even notice 12 No Didn t even notice 13 No Didn t even notice 14 No Didn t even notice 15 No Didn t even notice 16 No Didn t even notice 17 No Didn t even notice 35

36 Observer Questions Road User responses 18 Did you notice anything different at this site Yes The Hidden Queue sign ( There was no such sign) Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible Didn t even notice 19 No Didn t even notice 20 No Didn t even notice 21 No Didn t even notice 22 No Didn t even notice 23 No Didn t even notice 24 No Didn t even notice 25 No Didn t even notice 26 No Didn t even notice 27 No Didn t even notice 28 No Didn t even notice 29 No Didn t even notice 30 No Didn t even notice 36

37 Region:- Canterbury Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Bridle Path Road 50km/h Date of Observation:- 17 th February 2016 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C 1 1 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C

38 Region:- Canterbury Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Bridle Path Road 50km/h Date of Observation:- 17 th February 2016 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No 2 It looks a very neat site 3 4 No- It looks like a good site, cone are neat Looks very well organized and clear 5 Looks like a good site 6 7 No Found it very hard to see the MTC as a truck was in the way. Didn t see her until I got really close as there is a lot of yellow cones but the yellow sleeves help. Yes it helps her stand out from the orange around her. Much more visible Yes the contrast is good would be better if they were all yellow. Yes because we are so used of seeing orange the yellow helps. Yellow helps but I still didn t see her. Would be better if they were all yellow STMS is more visible. Don t think it matters what colour they are 8 No there s signs and a bunch of cones 9 No Yeah I guess. 10 It s a good site - I ve driven through a lot this week Yes 11 No Yes 12 No Yes it works well 13 No It s a good site 14 No Yes 15 No 16 No Yes it stands out from the orange Yes everyone gets used of orange so yellow stands out. I never really notice them I suppose yellow helps 38

39 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 17 No Yes - she stands out more. 18 No Yes - it helps 19 No Yes 20 No Yes the contrast is good. 21 No Yes yellow stripes on the front would help 22 No Yes they look great. 23 No Yes - they help her stand out from the orange 24 No Yes definitely against the cones. 25 No I guess. 26 No Yes they work really well. 27 No Yes probably helps 28 Yes the MTC has yellow sleeves 29 No Yes 30 No I think it helps, but I always notice the cones first Yes but the orange sleeves are good too. 39

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41 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Waitakere Road 80 km/h Date of Observation:- 4 th March 2016 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B 8 8 C 1 1 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B 6 6 C

42 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #1 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Waitakere Road 80 km/h Date of Observation:- 4 th March 2016 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No A bit more diversity in colour I guess 2 No They both look good 3 No No maybe if it was all yellow 4 No Didn t notice sorry n 5 Yes more cones Not at all 6 Apart from the road works - No No - Your signs stood out to me most 7 More signs No I didn t notice 8 No No 9 No Now you point it out - yes 10 No No but the two different colours probably help 11 Signs seemed placed further back than usual Yes breaks up the monotony of the orange. 12 No Maybe at night 13 Digital sign board (VMS) back up the road No can t say I did really. 14 No No- orange is good enough. 15 No Yes now you ask 16 No Thinking about it yes it does. 42

43 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 17 Well set up Didn t notice but yes probably 18 No No I didn t think so. 19 No Didn t take any notice to be honest. 20 No 50/50 21 No No It s Not Australia 22 Clear signage and cones Yes I do 23 No I didn t notice but yes he is very visible 24 No Yes they do 25 No 26 Loads of cones 27 No Didn t ring any bells but I think orange stands out better. Either one, the Stop sign is what I noticed. Yes I think it helps but didn t notice until you asked. 28 No Didn t notice sorry. 29 The sign board (VMS) 30 No No didn t notice I think the yellow blends in with the grass. Didn t notice but he s definably brighter 43

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45 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #2 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Northfield Road 50km/h Date of Observation:- 5 th of March 2016 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A 6 6 B C 0 0 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A 8 8 B C

46 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #2 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Northfield Road 50km/h Date of Observation:- 5 th of March 2016 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No Didn t notice sorry 2 No Yes they stand out more 3 No No maybe if his hat was yellow 4 No Didn t notice sorry 5 No No Not at all 6 No Now you point it out - yes 7 No No didn t notice 8 No No 9 No Now you point it out - yes 10 No No - Don t mind what colour 11 No Yes 12 No No but you have lots of signs, why do we have to go 30? 13 No No can t say I really did. 14 No What about pink. 15 No Yes now you ask 16 No 17 No Thinking about it - yes it does. Didn t notice but yes possibly 46

47 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 18 No No I didn t think so. 19 No Didn t take any notice to be honest. 20 No Yes I do. 21 No Maybe he should stand more in the road to be seen. 22 No Yes I do. 23 No Can t say it did 24 No You are all visible 25 No Yes- maybe 26 No Didn t notice sorry 27 No Yes I think it helps but I didn t notice until you asked. 28 No Didn t notice sorry 29 No Didn t notice sorry 30 No Didn t notice 47

48 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #3 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Waitakere Road 80km/h Date of Observation:- 7 th of March 2016 With Orange Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B C 0 0 With Yellow Sleeves Stopping Position Numbers of each road user Total A B 8 8 C

49 Region:- Auckland Site Number:- #3 Site Location:- Permanent Posted Speed:- Date of Observation:- Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 1 No Didn t notice sorry. 2 No Didn t notice but yes possibly. 3 No Didn t notice sorry. 4 No Didn t notice sorry. 5 No No - Not at all. 6 No Now you point it out yes. 7 No Yes I guess so. 8 No Yes he looks good. 9 No Well I like pink. 10 No Only because he was holding his arm up. 11 No Didn t notice sorry. 12 No Thinking about it now you ask yes I think it does. 13 No No can t say I did really. 14 No No. 15 No Yes now you ask. 16 No 17 No Thinking about it yes it does. Didn t notice but yes possibly. 49

50 Observer Questions Road User responses Did you notice anything different at this site Did you think the yellow sleeves make the MTC more visible 18 No No - didn t think so 19 No I think orange stands out better 20 No I don t really care. 21 No Yes It stands out to me 22 No Yes I do. 23 No I can t believe you re asking me this, you all stick out. 24 No Yes they do. 25 No Yes I think it helps, but didn t notice until you asked. 26 No Yes I think it does. 27 No I noticed all the cones. 28 No Didn t notice sorry. 29 No No - didn t notice. 30 No Didn t notice. 50